Talk:Mount Wellington (Tasmania)

Untitled

Hobartians - is that really appropriate? SatuSuro 02:29, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Nearest permanent settlement

'It is not popularly known that the nearest permanent human settlement directly west of the very pinnacle of the mountain, is 11,000 kilometres away, in Chile'

What atlas are we using here? Has Argentina ceased to exist? This needs to be cited or deleted.

I've removed it - the best reference I could find was Answers.com, which appeared to have come from Wikipedia anyway. --Scott Davis ^Talk 13:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

If it is true, it's referring to permanent settlements. Otherwise you're not just forgetting Argentina, but the rest of Tasmania west of the mountain as well!--Just James ^T/C 12:12, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Current cable car proposal

There have been a couple of single-purpose accounts recently adding emotive/biased content into the paragraph about the current cable car proposal. If people wish to introduce further changes to this paragraph please suggest them here on the talk page first. -- Chuq (talk) 13:19, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Dual naming

Do people think it is appropriate to rename this article to kunanyi / Mount Wellington? I notice signs (such as at the pinnacle) have been changed, but also the road sign such as when leaving the Southern Outlet has been modified (rather awkwardly - with giant brackets). All names have benefits:

• kunanyi / Mount Wellington is the official name
• Mount Wellington is the most common name
• kunanyi doesn't require disambiguation

I'm not suggesting one name over the other but it is worth having the discussion. See also List of dual place names in New Zealand. -- Chuq (talk) 06:04, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

no, the only name is Mount Wellington, the other names no one will know. Kunanyi has had 3 hits in the last 3 months, whereas the curent name has 7150 hits in the same time. We often ignore official names as titles as they are not the WP:commonname as our policy requires.Redirects are OK. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 06:52, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Regarding the hit counts, are they from internal links or actual typed search teams (from Google or WP?) given the redirect from kunanyi didn't exist until yesterday, I'm not surprised. WP:COMMONNAME does make sense though, for now. Maybe in the future. (I notice Uluru is at the aboriginal name, rather than Uluru / Ayers Rock). -- Chuq (talk) 03:48, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Hobart City Council calls it "kunanyi / Mount Wellington", following the capitalization rules of palawa kani. Still, WP:commonname would appear to apply, in my opinion. Maybe the article could do with a "name" section or subsection? With references, of course. Pete "Moonah Hooner" AU aka --Shirt58 (talk) 09:08, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

It may at least deserve a mention. I'll re-word the intro! -- Chuq (talk) 12:10, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

-->This article should definitely should be titled with it's correct, official and commonly used name: 'kunanyi / Mount Wellington' or 'kunanyi' Mwvr (talk) 08:15, 20 October 2019 (UTC)Mwvr

You would need to provide some evidence that it is the common name. StAnselm (talk) 08:51, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Lots of recent books still have just "Mt Wellington".[1][2] Even The Mercury sometimes slips up and just has "Mt Wellington".[3] So does ABC News.[4][5] StAnselm (talk) 08:58, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

the ABC now refers to the mountain as kunanyi/Mount Wellington with respect to that very same cable car project as of 2021: [6], as does the Mercury: [7] Ljgua124 (talk) 02:52, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

I agree it should be kunanyi/Mt Wellington - to be omitting the palawa kani name in 2020 looks out of place, out of date and questionable. A google search on the word kunanyi shows that it is in common usage by the local population (or which I am a member). Lindaseaborn (talk) 03:40, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Just checking back in on this, just last week The Mercury had the headline "Dale Eric Godfrey’s death at Mt Wellington to remain unsolved", and just yesterday, the Kidspot website had a piece on "3 weekend getaways an hour from your capital city" with just "Mount Wellington". So perhaps in recent news articles the dual name is predominant, but that is still not enough to displace "Mount Wellington" has the common name. We may need to wait a few more years to see how published books are handling it. StAnselm (talk) 22:25, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Further evidence that kunanyi / Mount Wellington is in common usage and should be considered the common name (here seen used by the ABC and the Mercury): [8][9]. I believe it is time to consider renaming this page. Ljgua124 (talk) 02:52, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

I'd also note that kunanyi / Mount Wellington is universally seen on road signs and buses in the area. Poketama (talk) 03:12, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Page views update for last month: kunanyi:5 ; kunanyi / Mount Wellington 21  ; Mount Wellington (Tasmania): 3433. In the last year kunanyi has 57 hits. See https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&start=2021-04-24&end=2022-04-23&pages=Kunanyi%7CMount_Wellington_(Tasmania)%7CKunanyi_/_Mount_Wellington. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:13, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

kunanyi / Mount Wellington is the primary name used for road signs, is the officially gazetted name, and is seeing increased media use. I think the most appropriate course of action is to adopt this usage. NebuchadnezzarHammurabi (talk) 07:39, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I'm inclined to agree. We still need to use WP:RM, though. StAnselm (talk) 14:00, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

In that case, I'll get one started. Poketama (talk) 17:54, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Incorrect Elevation

Maybe the official elevation has changed, but my understanding is that the elevation of Mount Wellington is 1,271m rather than 1,269m. 1,271 is quoted on Tasmap maps and publications, and on the Wellington Park site (http://www.wellingtonpark.org.au/faq/), and even in the weblink referenced in the article (although older versions of the site may have had a different figure). 121.223.161.89 (talk) 00:32, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Mountain renamed by gazette on 19 Dec 2013

Mount Wellington was renamed kunanyi on 19 Dec 2013 by the Tasmanian Nomenclature Board: Confirmation Notice No 111. As a consequence the wikipedia page has been moved to kunanyi / Mount Wellington to reflect the gazetted name change

Under Dual Naming policy the accepted name for the mountain is is kunanyi / Mount Wellington. Palawa Kani placenames are conventionally spelt without a capital but Wikipedia defaults to a capital in the title.

The Gazetting of the mountain as kunanyi with the dual naming of kunanyi / Mount Wellington can be viewed at the Nomenclature Board of Tasmania. Sean Parker (talk) 11:34, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia uses the name in common use, rather than official names. It is OK to mention the official name in the text however. If the official name becomes widespread in use, then it can be renamed. But due to your blanking of the redirect, it will not be possible without admin assistance. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:11, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

The mountain's name is not Mt Wellington it is kunanyi / Mt Wellington and this page will be referred to Wikipedia administrators for adjudication.Sean Parker (talk) 12:23, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

What wikipedia is WP:ABOUT probably needs to be read very carefully... as well as WP:AGF and WP:NOT

If you bothered to look User Graeme Bartlett is an administrator for a start.. and also, please take note an experienced editor on Tasmanian subjects...

Wikipedia is not about creating a list 'exact' by legal proscription every items as proscribed by legal or other means - there are a wide range of options which are used for naming people, things and places - and it is not a pleasant experience in some cases - there are some policies well established which are not there to accept exact legal definitions and names - but in fact those which are found as common, and accepted names - as Graeme has very specifically indicated that Wikipedia uses the name in common use, rather than official names - take a look around wikipedia - this is the case. Being determined to make a fuss about an exact name will waste yours and others time - the cases of where 'exact' names have failed to move the wikipedia community is a long litany of exasperated editors who have tried to hijack policy or precedent - it does not work, try to learn from it and move on, rather than be stuck with it, is a suggestion.

Tasmanian topics and subjects are 'under-watched' - and as a consequence followup or 'other eyes' may be long in coming along. (I once waited a year for a reply) - if you really have the projects aims at heart - not your own particular agenda, it might be better to have arguments about others things in other places - it gets very quiet in Tasmanian project space. JarrahTree 12:46, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Also look a item 5 - this ha all been through before, sigh... with WP:AGF JarrahTree 12:49, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

references to Aboriginal words

There seems to be something to do with pushing an opinion or preference going on with references to Aboriginal words on this page. There is a heavy reliance on the Milligan publication.

I've just had a look at it and whilst it does list the names Unghbanyahletta and Poorawetter it does not identify which language groups these names are from. Calling them the "real Aboriginal" names seems to be an opinion/preference rather than fact,and calling palawa kani "conlang" instead of it's name seems strange.

Palawa kani is used across Tasmania in dual naming and it would make sense for it be called by its name rather than "conlang". Statements such as "Mount Wellington was originally referred by the original Tasmanian nations of the area as unghbanyahletta (or ungyhaletta), poorawetter (or ‘'pooranetere'’, also pooranetteri),[1] " should be edited to reflect the source they come from, eg two names (from unidentified language groups) recorded by Milligan for the moountain were unghbanyahletta (or ungyhaletta), poorawetter (or ‘'pooranetere'’, also pooranetteri),[1] Lindaseaborn (talk) 03:18, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

References

Requested move 16 June 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not Moved (non-admin closure) >>> Extorc.talk 07:47, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

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Mount Wellington (Tasmania) → kunanyi / Mount Wellington – kunanyi / Mount Wellington is the primary name used for road signs, is the officially gazetted name, is used on buses, and is seeing increased media use. It has been an official name for almost a decade now I believe, and has now become pretty frequently used. This name would also allow this page to remove the (Tasmania) disambiguation. This has been discussed before, but there seems to be a large amount of users who approve of a change now. I don't believe it could be reasonably expected that this would harm the page views of this page. Worldwide and on Australia on Google, a roughly equal amount of users are searching 'kunanyi' and 'mount wellington tasmania' https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=AU&q=kunanyi,mount%20wellington%20tasmania,kunanyi%20mount%20wellington Poketama (talk) 18:09, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Support for reasons I stated above. Poketama (talk) 18:12, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

• Comment. I've been holding out against this for quite a while on the basis of WP:COMMONNAME (see above discussions), but I think the tide has turned now. However, looking at the news - there was a recent incident there - it's still not clear:

The Guardian (subheading): "Eight people became trapped on Mt Wellington’s summit, and another is missing, as blizzard-like weather causes ‘deadly’ conditions"

ABC (heading): "Hikers rescued on kunanyi/Mt Wellington, woman killed by falling tree as wild weather lashes state"

9 News (first mention): "Eight people in total had to be rescued from Mt Wellington in Hobart yesterday, in two separate incidents."

(Disclosure: Hobart is my home town, but it has been a couple of decades since I lived there.) StAnselm (talk) 19:31, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support. A check of Google News suggests that kunanyi, Mount Wellington, and the dual name are all used with comparable frequency; since there's not an obvious WP:COMMONNAME, the dual name will ensure the greatest amount of recognizability. The dual name also serves as natural disambiguation, which is preferable to the current parenthetical title. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 21:53, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Ngrams makes it clear that the dual name has minimal use, as does Google Scholar (175 results for the dual name, 2070 results for Mount Wellington). Google News is also prefers the single name, although not as strongly, with 211 results for Mount Wellington, compared to 103 for the dual name.

The proposed name also has recognizability problems, as it leads with the less common part of the name, and "Tasmania" is more useful for readers in recognizing this mountain than "kunanyi" is. As a form of disambiguation, the proposed title is also not suitable; a slash is less natural than brackets, and WP:PLACEDAB requires that Australian places are disambiguated with the name of the state. BilledMammal (talk) 11:20, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

• Comment. User:BilledMammal That there are fewer Google Scholar citations for "kunanyi / Mount Wellington" or "kunanyi" than "Mount Wellington" alone is unsurprising, given the dual names were adopted nine years ago. Consider that Uluru has ≈14k Google Scholar citations compared to ≈41k for Ayers Rock; Uluru's dual name was adopted 29 years ago Mwvr (talk) 11:46, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
  • Since the name change, there have been 409 results for Mount Wellington, 106 results for kunanyi, and 52 results for the dual name. BilledMammal (talk) 11:58, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

ngram is not reliable in this case as 1. It's limited to up to 2019. and 2. Mount Wellington is a name used in multiple locations so the count is inflated.

Also, the usage is increasing as time goes on at Google Scholar. Sorted by 2020, the usage is 90 to 71 (in favour of the non-dual name).Poketama (talk) 10:48, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support. Road signs refer to kunanyi / Mount Wellington, for example: Fern Tree and Davey Street

Bureau of Meterology and ABC News use dual name. Somewhat anecdotal, but watching ABC News Tasmania and ABC late news tonight, I have heard one news reporter refer to the mountain as kunanyi (ABC News Tasmania, 17 June 2022); and another ABC News channel story referred to 'kunanyi / Mount Wellington' (although the story text detailed 'Kunanyi Mount Wellington' [sic]). A search of Tasmanian Parliament House of Assembly Hansard over 2020-22 yields 26 results for "kunanyi"; 22 results for "Mount Wellington" or "Mt Wellington". Ten of the 26 results for kunanyi were 'kunanyi / Mount Wellington' or a similar variation. Eight of the 22 results for "Mount Wellington" or "Mt Wellington" included dual name kunanyi. Seven of the 22 result were in the context of the cable car, five of which were referring specifically to a cable car company, which does not include kunanyi in its name. Mwvr (talk) 11:25, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support seems like a sensible move based on the evidence presented. My only question is whether we might need to have kunanyi capitalised in the title, as it seems there might be some technical limitations with article titles starting in lowercase? Turnagra (talk) 20:28, 17 June 2022 (UTC).
  • It could be made to display lowercase with {{DISPLAYTITLE:kunanyi / Mount Wellington}} which I have now set on the redirect. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 23:45, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose - Tasmania and Hobart are significant tourist destinations and have been for many years. In the world's literature Mount Wellington is the best-known name regardless of what the local council does. --Pete (talk) 23:28, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per BilledMammal. Dāsānudāsa (talk) 07:31, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose, as this is the english language Wikipedia. GoodDay (talk) 17:02, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

  I'd note that the entire argument is that the proposed name is used in English. Turnagra (talk) 19:19, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

  Yeah this is not a valid reason in Wikipolicy to oppose. Poketama (talk) 10:49, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose per BilledMammal. I expect that at some point the usage will shift, but it's not there yet. StAnselm (talk) 21:13, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose - per Pete and BilledMammal. Although kunanyi is heavily promoted at a higher level it's still going to be quite a while before it becomes a common term Malvus (talk) 23:20, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.