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What Mastronarde writes about the pronunciation of Y in Ancient Greek is nonsense since u in French lune and ruse have the same length. What he writes about German equivalents is misleading since the long and short y in German differ in pronunciation, not only in length. --Espoo (talk) 05:59, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well, our article on French phonology states that French vowels tend to be pronounced longer when followed by a voiced fricative, so ruse might really have a longer vowel than lune, even if it's not a phonemic distinction. It's true that the tense/lax pairs of languages like English and German are probably a poor analogy. Fut.Perf.☼08:53, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Omicron like German ohne?
The article says that the letter omicron is pronounced like the letter oh in the German word ohne. I know very little German, but isn't ohne pronounced with a long initial vowel, /ˈoːnə/? Imerologul Valah (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 21:18, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Lunate sigma in table
I wonder why lunate sigma is shown in the table. Other letters also have glyph variants, for example, β/ϐ, ε/ϵ, θ/ϑ, φ/ɸ, ω/ɷ and that's just some of the ones with Unicode code points, and of course there are many archaic, cursive, uncial, and other variants, as documented in this and other articles. So why include lunate sigma in the master table? --Macrakis (talk) 15:13, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, as so often. Let's remove it. (I still can't help thinking that whole big "master table" isn't a good idea in the first place.) Fut.Perf.☼16:48, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I personally believe that some mention of the lunate sigma might have been important(?); at least the information in the note, if it is not included in the table. The lunate sigma has a special position in the greek alphabet, despite being now officially out of use. It has been widely used for centuries throughout antiquity and the middle ages (perhaps at times even more than the standard sigma Σ σ). It also varies significantly from the standard sigma; modern people might not even know that C c was at some point a common letter of the Greek alphabet and many might see it as an exclusively Latin letter, which is not the case. Piccco (talk) 22:27, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Would it be worth splitting this into two articles, for the ancient and modern alphabets?
Discussion of the letters wau/digamma, san and qoppa or ancient dialect boundaries isn't really relevant to people who want to know about the modern Greek alphabet, while people who want to know about the ancient Greek alphabet probably don't care overly much about things like the Hellenistic and Byzantine changes to the vowel names (other than a brief mention that modern practice calls the vowels the ancients knew as εἶ, οὖ, ὖ and ὦ by their modernised names epsilon, omicron, upsilon and omega). TWinwood (talk) 22:32, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Assuming that's true (I don't think it necessarily is) I don't think this would be wise; it would result in two short-ish, poorly weighted articles instead of one comprehensive article of average length. I do think the historical information could be refactored to make the structure clearer for each of those reader types.
The topic is pretty coherent as is; the Greek alphabet was more conservative between 500 BC and 1500 AD than almost any other script I can think of. Remsense ‥ 论22:45, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, Remsense is right; such splitting wouldn't make sense and would be completely arbitrary, because where do we draw the line between modern and ancient alphabet. The Greek alphabet is one and the article will obviously include its history. Also, Remsense comment is accurate; the standardized 24 letters version of the Greek alphabet, known as Euclidean, on which the modern alphabet is based, has essentially been the same since the 4th century BC. Piccco (talk) 17:25, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
level-3 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
