Talk:Light switch

Lamp switch types

Someone include diagram of lamp switch diagrams. The twist knob and push type switch are not covered anywhere.--68.91.95.151 (talk) 05:34, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

The twist knob (see this picture) has been commonly used in the past in The Netherlands, and probably in many European countries. It has to be covered in this article. Deresser (talk) 11:52, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

VFD

Has anyone else noticed that the best way to get an article expanded is to list it for vfd? How Ironic. (and apologies for listing it for vfd, I really didn't see any more scope).RJFJR 02:29, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It feels nice to be able to add any old thing to expand the article, knowing it can be cleaned later if it passes VfD. --Dbenbenn 02:44, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Dimmers

Dimmers do not currently use a variable resistor, they are too inefficient in terms of power because they are basically throwing away some of the energy (as heat) that would have been used for producing light. We should perhaps include something on making sure the dimmer used is rated for the power requirement (usually the problem is you can't use a light dimmer to dim a fan without it burning out). RJFJR 02:25, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for correcting me; I never knew that. --Dbenbenn 02:44, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The article at dimmer is really about the kind of lighting controls used in theatrical performances, but it has some nice information on how dimmers work. RJFJR 03:05, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Yeah i've tried to generalise it a bit. Ofc professional (theartical and similar) dimmers still dominate the article as there is far more to be said about them than the little domestic units. Plugwash 01:12, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

things to add

The top-of-the-page pic lacks the definition of the type of switch: Toggle, push-button, etc. Obviously, it's a 'rocker-style', but from my experience from the day they were introduced in the 70's, everyone has called them 'Decora' switches. Funny, when looking into this article, I only just now found out it's a trade name of Leviton, like Kleenex(tm) or Styrofoam(tm). FYI: I've been an electrician near Grandfather Mountain my whole life. REF:https://www.leviton.com/en/products/brands/decora — Preceding unsigned comment added by Threecaster (talk • contribs) 16:27, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

So in short: add to picture description the switch style: two each Decora(tm), 'rocker style' switches.

How do y'all feel about the term "Wire Nuts"? (I could tell a funny story about a carpet guy and his 'wire turds' LOL) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Threecaster (talk • contribs) 16:23, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

We should add some information on how to use two SPDT switches so either can turn on or off the light independant of the other. RJFJR 02:25, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

When I put it up for vfd someone suggested that decorated switch plates might be in order. RJFJR 02:25, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Seems a light switch could include features like a light bulb in the switch so it is easier to find in the dark. Not sure such features really need to be discussed here. RJFJR 02:25, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Right, I remember seeing switches that are illuminated when the light itself is off. Also, variable-switches come in at least three types:

1. A knob that rotates continuously.
2. A knob with a discreet number of settings (ex. 3).
3. A "touchpad". Touching high on the pad brightens the light, touching low dims, and tapping the pad turns it off. My neighbors had one of these when I was young, and it was really crappy.

--Dbenbenn 02:34, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Added a crappy picture. Someone with access to a good decorative lightswitch cover should photograph it. --Dbenbenn 02:44, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

--Agreed. And you mispelled "hideous" - it looks like it says "decorative" but this is clearly a mistake. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.231.227.103 (talk) 18:11, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

One thing I came to the article looking for, but didn't find, was info on the standard dimensions of switches. There must be different standards in different countries depending on the dimensions of outlet boxes, etc. - Blueguy 65.0.212.9 (talk) 19:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

There ARE different standards in different countries and the standard dimensions of the wall mounting hardware (boxes, plates etc.) used in each country are important. Obviously, the wall plates used must cover this hardware. In Australia (and North America) the minimum size of a standard wall box is 97 mm x 57 mm ( Approximately 3 13/16" x 2 1/4").

However, the MOST important dimension is the "Mounting Centres" provided for mounting Wall-Plates/Switches. This is 84 mm (3 5/16") in all of these countries. In North America (with Indirect Mounting) the Switch mounts on the Wall Hardware and the Wall-Plate mounts on the Switch. The Wall-Plate mounting centres (on the Switch) are 60 mm (2 3/8"). In Australia, the Wall-Plate assembly - including the Switches - mounts on the Wall Hardware, using the 84 mm mounting centres directly. Fredquint (talk) 03:10, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Re the "14:36, 9 April 2013‎ Wtshymanski (talk | contribs)‎ . . (20,309 bytes) (-1,426)‎ . . (painful explanation of minutia removed; this is an overview, not the how-to manual for house wiring)" removal of the update concerning dimensions. The addition of these dimensions was in response to the need expressed by the use r(Bluguy) above. Fredquint (talk) 04:21, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

References

Cultural question: which position is on, which is off?

In the U. S. up is on, down is off.

My recollection is that in the 1950s when I visited England, up was off and down was on, and I think this was generally true. I have a query in at Talk:American_and_British_English_differences asking if this is still current (pun unintentional).

• US Survival Tips for Aussies says "Light switches are upside down compared to ours (ie down is off and up is on)." Apparently Australia follows British custom.

Other countries? Dpbsmith (talk) 01:38, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The UK, Australia and France are all the same. Down=On, Up=Off. A lot of UK switches have the word "TOP" on the inside to help the person fitting it. I would expect that all ex-British colonies use the same positions as the UK. Most of these countries use or have used same sockets, and almost all British sockets have switches built in to them which are the same way around as light switches. For push switches (where you can see a difference) In=On and Out=Off. Does that differ anywhere? --Ziltro 00:44, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Finland has Up=ON, Down=OFF. I have a feeling German, Switzerland and Italy have it same way. (5.1.2014)

Archived deletion debate

For the archived deletion debate related to this article see Talk:Light switch/delete -- Graham ☺ | Talk 22:13, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I've heard that North American practice (up is ON, down is OFF) is considered safer than the European norm which is the reverse: something/someone falling against the switch will turn the power off. In this regard, although European and British electrical circuit practice is considered better, this is something that appears to have logic!

At a slight tangent, as a Brit now living in Canada, North American switch/socket design appears much better by being able to remove the faceplate without exposing the wiring when redecorating.

Toggle Action

There is some really good material on toggel switches that should be copied to tooggle switch too. That article is a stub.

Conservative design?

The article seems to suggest that light switches come in one uniform design, with changes mostly limited to the faceplates, and that people never bother changing them.

Uh... in the US, this is definitely the case. I've only ever seen two kinds of light switches in anything close to common use here, with one in the overwhelming majority.

Back in The Netherlands, there are many different designs sold by many different companies, making it almost impossible to find a matching faceplate if the switches were installed by a contractor that likes to use a strange brand that is not available in home improvement stores.

I personally find that an apalling situation, seeing as the differences are frivolous, but aside from my personal opinion, I'm just saying maybe a more international scope is called for.

Too American

This page currently concentrates on the United States far far too much. It needs to be expanded to cover international designs like Domestic AC power plugs & sockets Jooler 23:13, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Definatly. For example: "being in reality a metal or plastic box with a switch in it, commonly have switch plate covers called wall plates" this only applies to light switches in the USA (and other countries who use the USA standards) as far as I have seen. Everywhere else the switch and the plate are one in the same. In the UK a circuit where the light is controlled by two switches is called a two-way switch. The description suggests this would be called a three-way switch in USA? --Ziltro 17:10, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Other countries (e.g. Australia & South Africa) have wall-plates which can have one or many switch (or other) mechanisms installed.Fredquint (talk) 02:24, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

yep we also need to reconcile somehow with switch which currently has a lot of info on multiway switching, not sure how best to handle the split between switch and lightswitch though. Plugwash 14:45, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Rename

On the note of the person above, I suggest moving it to a more appropriate name. The switches the article describes can switch any mains circuit, not just lighting. I'm suggesting Domestic AC electrical switches. Any takers or comments? Thanx 68.39.174.150 04:42, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

i'm in the uk and there is certainly a differnce between a lightswitch which is usually only single pole and rated at 5A or 10A and switches used for most other uses (generally either a 20A double pole switch or a 13A fused connection unit. Plugwash 12:19, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Alright, but it'd be a royal pain to have to have a seperate page for each country that did it differently. Also, the page name I suggest could cover both. If it was organized right, it could cover both kinds in britian, as Domestic AC power plugs & sockets covers both kinds of plugs used there. 68.39.174.150 04:00, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Operation

The section on contact action seems out of place in an otherwise not very technical article. Possibly it would be better treated by a separate article, and simply referenced here ?

In any case if contact action is discussed to the level it is in the present article its may be sensible to add a couple of extra points.

• The switch is usually designed to have a wipe action such that the contact corrosion is cleaned off the area of the contact that forms the low resistance path when the switch is closed.

• The switch is usually designed so that the initial point of contact and thus the majority of the contact corrosion occurs at a sacrificial part of the contact, rather than the face that is in contact when the switch is fully closed.

• Usually the contact area of the switch is a sophisticated construction of brass contact, silver contact button and plated finish to minimise the amount of contact corrosion and thus extend the life of the switch.

• The switch is also usually designed so that the arc that forms as the contacts separate drifts off the contact area rapidly as the switch opens.

• That the switch design often relies on the separation arc to disperse the contact corrosion, and that a switch designed for high current/high voltage use may become unreliable if operated at very low currents and low voltages because the contact corrosion builds up excessively without an arc to disperse it.

--Shoka 22:29, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

That's good stuff, I think it should go in the article. Go for it.

I see no reason at all to split out a separate article for the technical details; there's plenty of room in this one. There might be some point in reorganizing the article; for example, "internal operation" might go better at the end as a two-equals-sign section. Dpbsmith (talk) 10:31, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Pull cords

Are these a British thing? I do not recall seeing them anywhere else. It appears to be illegal to have light switches or sockets (except the shaver socket) in bathrooms/toilets. This means there are two choices for a light switch. 1 is to put the switch outside the bathroom. Two down sides to this are that when leaving the bathroom you have to turn the light off and might still have wet hands and 2 is that kids will turn the light off on eachother! The other option is a pull cord. This is a light switch attached to the cieling inside the bathroom/toilet, it is a pull switch and has a short piece of cord coming out of the switch, usually about 10-20cm long. This is then joined through a small plastic connector to a longer cord so the length can be adjusted. There is then an object (I can't think of a better description) attached to the bottom to act as a weight and keep the cord straight. These are usually plastic and shaped like the end of a trumpet facing downwards. This allows the knot to be hidden. Some people change these for other decerative objects which it is possible to buy. The basic design of these is to have a small hole in the top and a larger hole in the bottom. This allows the cord to be pushed all the way through the object, tied in a knot and the knot pulled back up and hidden inside the large hole.

They exist in new zealand, although generally in older houses (and in any room). Some countries have regulations about how close to a water fixture plugs/switches can be (so some small bathrooms end up with switches outside). Some may even date back to houses that were retrofitted with electricity (having been built before it was available), but I'm only speculating.Limegreen 02:26, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Its not illegal to have lightswitches in bathrooms (despite many peoples impressions) provided they are in zone 3 or outside the zones (which can be awkward or impossible if the bathroom is small). The main reason for pull cords is it means the switch itself is placed in an allowed location whilst the pull cord drops down into zone 2 or even zone 1. Plugwash 15:00, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

In areas that use the American system, the pull-chain (because we use a metal chain with bead links that goes to a plastic actuator inside) switch is commonly integral to the lampholder. These are a single unit for porcelain cieling-mount rosettes and table lamps; or sometimes the switch is a replaceable component fitted into the canopy of a more elaborate light fitting.Stephanie Weil 16:20, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

In Canada, my house and my parents house have pull chain switches on ceiling lights in rarely used spaces, such as basements or closets. A pull chain unit does not involve wiring back to a wall switch, so they were probably cheaper and quicker to install. That is you can run a single wire from any nearby junction box to put in a single unit with combined light and switch.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.206.115.167 (talk • contribs)

Rocker switch

The current text is not describing a rocker switch, but some manufacturer's range! I don't know how to re-word it, anyone else care to? I guess it could do with photos too. European ones tend to be quite large, Australian ones quite small and UK ones somewhere in the middle. :) Ziltro 19:58, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

3-way dimmer switches

I would like to know more about how 3-way dimmer switches work, especially when two of them are in use for the same lamp (wouldn't the dimmer with the lowest setting win out?).

To start with, "3-way switching" is an American term for 2-way switching, because the TWO (single pole, double throw) switches used have 3 terminals! One should install only ONE dimmer in such a setup because (with a dimmer at each 'end') the TWO dimmers, effectively, would be in series. Since a dimmer works by starting conduction at some time after the start of each cycle, if the setup DID work then the dimmer with the lowest setting WOULD 'win'. However, it may not work at all, since only half the supply voltage would be across each dimmer. Fredquint (talk) 08:46, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

More info for the history

This is a google patent of the inventers of the Light Switch that was after the two-push button, the one you just flick up and down. Light switch 1916. It was invented by Morris Goldberg, who did not take the fame or the money, and William J. Newton who did. ATC ^{. Talk} 01:23, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Illustration of switches

Tension kables are marked with red colour. Activated buttons are marked with black, inner frames:

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Kornowski (talk • contribs) 20:16, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

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