Talk:Afsluitdijk

Boys?

There is a small piece about school boys who cycled across the dike. Seems not relevant. People cycle across the dike on a daily basis, including schoolkids. 145.58.16.64 15:09, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Spelling

this'll need some grammar and spelling checks...

Is "Suydersee" an alternate spelling of Zuiderzee or a typo? --Brion 00:36 Oct 24, 2002 (UTC)

What I find on Google would suggest it's an alternate spelling. Hephaestos 01:27 Oct 24, 2002 (UTC)

Nope, it's probably an archaic spelling variant. Jeronimo

From what I've heard, "sluit" is pronounced not "sloot" (which would be "sloet") but somewhere between "slight" and "slout". Can one of the Dutch transliterate it better? -phma

Best approximation would be French "l'oeuil", without the l sounds. Jeronimo

It should be slœyt according to Dutch phonology

Try saying the the English word "slate" but make your lips rounded and pouted as you say the "a", that is I think the best way of explaining it if you don't know the IPA.

Booshank 20:13, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

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Judging by the text the original author added, I think he/she followed a link to "Afsluitdijk" and added the text, without realising that the article on the Zuiderzee Works actually contains far more info on the dam than this article does. Furthermore, the second paragraph has nothing to do with the Afsluitdijk and the transliteration is indeed incorrect. I propose to delete the text and make this article a redirect to the Zuiderzee Works. Anyone object? Scipius 18:49 Oct 26, 2002 (UTC)

The second paragraph is indeed irrelevant, but I think we need a separate article on the Afsluitdijk - it's not the same as the Zuiderzee Works (though an important part of it though). If there's a lot of information at Zuiderzee Works, why not copy it from there? There's no problem with having some duplicate information around. Jeronimo

Duplication would also be possible, but we would lose most of the context into which the info is embedded in the Zuiderzee Works article. Also, it's not some information that would be duplicate at this point, it would be most (nothing will likely be left of the current article), but that may not be a problem of course. I guess this kind of ties in with the debate on m:Consolidating v/s breaking up, I'm not sure if we want to create separate pages for each of the polders too, and related to this, whether Oosterscheldedam will remain once I've written a similar article on the Delta Works. Scipius 19:54 Oct 26, 2002 (UTC)

But just because understanding Operation Market Garden requires (extensive) knowledge of World War II and lot of other articles, doesn't mean we should just redirect everything there. Having a separate article on Afsluitdijk seems useful; we can refer (by links, or more explicitly) to Zuiderzee Works for detailed information and context. If somebody wants to put in more detail, copied or not from Zuiderzee Works, that is fine. If not, the context can be read there. Jeronimo

Well, I've copied the info from Zuiderzee Works to here and though it now seems a more informative article, I still don't see much use for it. I will remove the link from Zuiderzee Works to here, since it now contains virtually the same text. Also, suppose someone adds info to either text, should the other text then also be updated? I remain of the opinion that a redirect or an in-page anchor (should it ever be implemented) would be an easier solution. Scipius 12:38 Oct 27, 2002 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Pronunciation questions seem to spring up from time to time in Dutch-related articles. It may seem like overkill to add IPA everywhere though... Maybe a quick-reference chart for Dutch names could be created? Maybe it already exists? In that case only irregularly spelt names would need IPA.

Another idea: replace Netherlands category by a template which can include both the category and a link to such a reference chart. Search and replace in 25 pages is doable. (It's the sub-categories I'm worried about. But they won't all need the reference chart - I hope.) Shinobu 01:11, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Battle of Afsluitdijk (1940)

I've read somewhere that there was a great battle of Afsluitdijk in 1940 between Dutch and German forces and that this was the only battle during all the Blitzkrieg operations between 1939 to 1942 where the German forces couldn't defeat the other forces. Anyone who knows something about this?

You are right, there was a battle. I've found a (formerly mispelled) stub-article about Kornwerderzand, the place of the battle. Stefan Jansen 10:52, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Landsat image?

The satellite image should be properly accredited. It is probably a Landsat TM image, and thus copyrighted by NASA. I can, however, not be sure of its origin.

Dike / dam naming issue

As mentioned in the Dutch version of this article: Although this structure is name the "Afsluitdijk" ("Closure Dike"), it is actually a dam, because it doesn't protect a body of land from a body of water, but rather separates two bodies of water. Maybe it's worth noting this fact? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.211.150.41 (talk) 07:45, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, as a Dutch person I can give you two answers. Firstly, when you think of dike you think of the object itself primarily, whether there is water on both, one or none of the sides only secondarily. There are in fact a lot of dikes in the Netherlands that don't have water on either side because new areas were turned into polders. Secondly, according to my dictionary dike used to also mean dam in Dutch. If this was still strictly true in 1927 I don't know. Shinobu (talk) 18:21, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Be that as it may, the common English denomination for the structure is 'Enclosure dam' (http://www.fotothing.com/photos/091/09193b4396fe47618893e8a9bd0b89f2_254.jpg), and I've changed the article accordingly. Zwart (talk) 23:06, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Please note that words do not always translate directly. The Dutch word 'dijk' is not the same as the English 'dyke' although we talk about 'dykes' in Netherlands. (In normal English usage 'dyke' is a drainage ditch.) Similarly Dutch 'dam' is not the same as English 'dam'. An English dam is used to contain water and so is the same as a dijk. I don't know of a specific English word for a barrier with water on both sides. I suspect that depending on context we would use, 'dam', 'bank', 'levee' or even 'wall'. dyke/dijk and dam/dam are false friends. OrewaTel (talk) 13:58, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

It seems the English word is "barrier", as in "The Thames Barrier is a retractable barrier system built to protect the floodplain of most of Greater London from exceptionally high tides and storm surges moving up from the North Sea." Dondervogel 2 (talk) 09:35, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

I think "Barrier" is a special usage for the Thames Barrier which is more of a gate. The High Dyke in Lincolnshire is a bank on which there is a road. it has nothing to do with flood prevention. Dyke can also mean a ditch. There are sea banks between Boston ,Lincs and Skegness.. I suspect thee are dykes which are banks in the Fenlands of England, in other districts (eg the Somerset levels or the area north west of Doncaster) I expect there are other local names) There was a scheme of land reclamation etc in the Severn Estuary which never happened which included a "barrage" I think in the Dutch context the Dutch word "dijk" has normally been translated as "dyke." Levee" with an acute accent on the final e is I think a US and specifically Mississippi usage, but it may be a general geographical term meaning raised banks bounding a river usually where the river is raised. There are rivers In England with such banks (eg the Ouse and the Nene in their lower courses but I don't know if their banks are called levees locally.. I suspect not.Spinney Hill (talk) 23:43, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

What is the relevance of a levee? There are no rivers involved here. Dondervogel 2 (talk) 17:26, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Exactly. That's why I commented on an earlier use of it Spinney Hill (talk) 18:09, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

sand core?

The second paragraph of the "History" section currently reads "From these points, the dike slowly grew by ships depositing till into the open sea in two parallel lines. Sand was then poured in between the two dikes and as it emerged above the surface was then covered by another layer of till." (emphasis mine)

Can anyone verify this? I can find no source mentioning the sand core except for a museum booklet, and all diagrams of the Afsluitdijk that I can find don't show it. See for example here and here. Amphicoelias (talk) 12:55, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

I've emailed the friendly people at deafsluitdijk.nl. They've confirmed that this is false. The core of the afsluitdijk is a single till dam. The confusion possibly arises from the fact that a small second damn was temporarily constructed to aid in depositing sand on top of the core. (This is called a "perskade".) I can't cite an email, so I won't add this information to the article. However, i will remove the false information. Amphicoelias (talk) 09:59, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Trivia

I am translating this section from nl:Afsluitdijk because:

1. I found the trivia interesting.
2. This is easy and I can do it. The more technical parts or the Dutch article are harder and it would stretch my competence in Dutch to verify that I hadn't made a silly error.

Please bear with me as I issue this one paragraph at a time. The Dutch article is very short of references. I'll put in the one reference in one paragraph and try to find independent references for the rest once I have finished this project. OrewaTel (talk) 13:03, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Icoon Afsluitdijk

An editor has noted that there are no citations in this section and summarily deleted it. I reverted the edit but it has highlighted the urgent need for references. If you wish to retain this information please add any references that you can find. OrewaTel (talk) 08:22, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Deleted Section

The following section has been deleted. It was originally translated from the Dutch Wikipedia so the Dutch think that it is relevant and noteworthy. Rather than start an edit war, it is being presented here for a consensus. Wikipedia guidelines deprecate 'Trivia' sections although they also deprecate deleting these sections without discussion. These paragraphs are relevant but perhaps they should be moved to other sections so that the 'Trivia' section can be retired. OrewaTel (talk) 02:25, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Section == Trivia == −

• The actual body of the Afsluitdijk is 30 kilometres (19 mi) long, measured from coast to coast. The highway over the Afsluitdijk is 32 kilometres (20 mi) long as measured between the Den Oever and Zurich exits. The adjacent ground works at each end of the dyke were constructed at the same time as the dyke itself. Consequently, the length of the Afsluitdijk is often stated to be 32 kilometres, although the water barrier section is only 30 kilometres long.

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• The Dutch word 'dijk' (dike) is actually a division between land and water. The name Afsluitdijk would be correct if the entire IJsselmeer had been drained. However, due to the change of plans it was left flooded so the Afsluitdijk is a barrier between two bodies of waters. In Dutch that is a 'dam'. This structure could more properly be called 'Afsluitdam'.

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• The European Long Distance Footpath E9, which is at this point coincides with the Dutch North Sea Trail, runs over the dike. The E9 runs along the coast from Portugal to the Baltic States.

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• Even before the dike was finally closed, the first human being was born on reclaimed land that was formerly Zuiderzee at Kornwerderzand. Petronella Maartha Bakker, born on 14 August 1928, was the daughter of Jan W. Bakker and Petronella Maartha Gillhaus. The parents actually wanted to call her Kornwerdina because of this special occasion. However, an official of the registry office of the municipality of Wûnseradiel refused to accept this name.

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• On August 15, 2006, Formula 1 driver Robert Doornbos was given the opportunity by Rijkswaterstaat to fulfil a childhood dream. On a part of the Afsluitdijk, which was specially closed, he reached a speed of 326 km/h (203 mph) in his Formula 1 car.

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• On October 25, 1999, an 80 cent commemorative stamp titled ‘De Afsluitdijk 1932’ was issued in the theme of 'highlights of the 20th century'.

OrewaTel (talk) 02:25, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

We can only make a consensus to include or exclude sourced information, what you are asking for is not possible. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 22:57, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Can you explain this edit and summary to me? You seem to have restored the unsourced text[1] but the summary says "Icoon Afsluitdijk is certainly not an advertisement but this section does not have any references. These are required.” If you know that sources are required before restoring unsourced content why would you restore it without sourcing it? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 23:00, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Because I did not have an authoritative English language source at the time. This has been rectified. This request should have been added to the section Talk:Afsluitdijk#Icoon Afsluitdijk OrewaTel (talk) 04:12, 27 July 2021 (UTC)