Talk:John Cassavetes

Why only selected filmography?

It would be easy to put the other films he directed on that list, although it wouldn't be selected filmography anymore...?Mrfixter 22:49, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Go for it, dude! Ellsworth 16:58, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Speaking of "selected filmography"... The lead sentence in the 1970s section ("He directed three films in the 1970s, each produced independently.") irritates me, ignoring as it does the films Husbands (1970) and Minnie and Moskowitz (1971). That whole section gives me the impression of being written by someone who watched the Criterion Collection box set and figured his knowledge is now complete.Mnoe817 (talk) 08:36, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

POV

Just me or does this article have POV/Neutrality problems for example: "He performed masterfully as an actor in films"--68.226.22.197 11:52, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Also, there is no need to refer to his 1970s films as "masterpieces" in the header

First things first, please sign your posts. Regarding the article, though I didn't write it, the usage of the term "masterpiece" varies, so it is not necessarily a NPOV statement. As for the statement "He performed masterfully as an actor in films", I think that it would be better to provide citations for it instead of deleting it entirely (but then again, I think he was a masterful actor, so perhaps I'm just biased). Cassavetes was quite highly regarded as an actor, so I'm sure that it won't be too difficult to find some good citations for this. Kevinloy 00:51, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Cassevetes works ARE broadly considered masterpieces in American film. I tis very hard to find an American Film course syllabus that does not have his work under the heading of masterpieces; when PBS did its series on America's "most outstanding cultural artists" Cassevetes lead off the film artists section, the series was called "American Masters" and Cassevetes was listed along with Hemingway, Chaplin, Kazan, Billie Holiday, Eugene O'Neill and Martha Graham. He is considered the father of independent film movement (this somehow got removed when it is hardly hyperbole and many volumes on American independent film history consider him thus.Stantal (talk) 01:33, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Cassavetes.jpg

Image:Cassavetes.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Pronunciation

Is it [kasa'vetis] or [kasa'vi:tis]? I've heard both. The first variant seems closer to the original Greek - not that this would matter in a country where Cukor is pronounced "Queuecore".--87.162.27.226 (talk) 14:43, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

In a documentary by Martin Scorsese, it is clearly pronounced /ˌkæsəˈvɛtiːz/, so I have updated the lead, with source link. --Macrakis (talk) 23:39, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Tags

I tagged the 1970s section and the brand new "Film Methodology" section. There is a lot of new material with few if any references. These sections will be removed in about a month's time if no inline citations are provided. Dr.K. (talk) 20:34, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Film Methodology sounds as if it's been lifted from an essay about Cassavetes; not really encyclopedic in tone, and of course is unsourced.--Parkwells (talk) 16:30, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree. It looks too WP:ORish overall. We should remove the unsourced portions but we can leave the sourced segments. Thanks for your reply. Dr.K. logos 17:21, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Immigrant Parentage e

The graph on his parentage at this point 10/31/09 implies, in fact says, both his parents were immigrants. Tha tis incorrect. His mother Katherine was born in the states. Both her parents were immigrants from Greece as was her husband, John Cassavetes' father (also from Greece). But the current language implies his mother was not born in the US and that is not the case.Stantal (talk) 01:40, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Good points but it would be even better if you added a few references supporting your comments. Thank you. Dr.K. ^praxis_logos 02:04, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

regarding profile image

Dr. K has twice removed the only image on this article claiming in the edit summaries that it "fails FUR. I have asked for an explanation, as FUR doesn't link to anything and I can only assume that Dr. K means that the image is not free use. I have asked Dr. K to discuss here on the talk page whether Dr. K thinks the image would qualify for usage under "WP:Non-free content#Policy. I will revert the image deletion so that a consensus can be reached on this talk page.--Abie the Fish Peddler (talk) 04:23, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately I think that under the prevailing interpretation of the Fair Use Rationale policy this image fails several criteria. I would be happy to see it survive so I will not revert you any longer (in fact I didn't notice that I reverted you twice because I was editing from my contributions list and not from my watchlist so I didn't see your edit). As I am the original uploader of this picture I would hate to see someone else notifying me again that this image is up for deletion even though I asked for its deletion first and you reverted me. So if someone notifies me again please try to explain that I did my best to delete it and you disagreed. Thanks. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 04:39, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

In fact I have invited Damiens.rf to review my file contributions. So if he bugs me again with a deletion request of this file I trust you will step up to the plate and reply to him. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 04:50, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

No problem, Dr. K. I had a feeling you were editing in a different fashion than I've noticed you edit before. If you wouldn't mind sharing on this page the information from the notification you received regarding the image, then maybe I or another editor can begin to find an image that is not in such risk of being deleted. And, of course, I would be happy to explain that you deleted the image twice as long as you let me know when I'm needed. Thanks again for all your work.--Abie the Fish Peddler (talk) 04:54, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Ok Abie. Sounds like a plan. Take care. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 05:07, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Meanwhile I listed the file for deletion at: Wikipedia:Files_for_deletion#File:John_Cassavetes_in_Johnny_Staccato.jpg. You may wish to defend its presence here. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 05:10, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip, I am also curious what other editors think, and hope they add their opinions and reasons at the site you linked to. Have a beautiful day.--Abie the Fish Peddler (talk) 07:31, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

You too Abie. It was a pleasure meeting you. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 12:51, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Including Cassavetes's ethnicity on the lede

Another editor keeps reverting the lede edit describing Cassavetes as a Greek-American. I have included a reliable source which describes Cassavetes's work as having being influenced by his ethnicity with the citation mentioning:

<ref>[http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2007/jun/08/3 The Guardian, Friday 8 June 2007] Article: Message in a bottle. Was John Cassavetes a genius in spite of his alcoholism, or because of it? John Sutherland on a director who made art out of addiction Quote: "Cassavetes was a second generation American-Greek, and he had a long and fruitful relationship with the actor Ben Gazzara - one of the first of his profession to parade his immigrant origins with an unchanged, aggressively "wop", professional name. Long before David Chase (né "de Caesare"), Cassavetes and Gazzara investigated ethnic edginess."</ref>

which clearly demonstrates that Cassavetes's work was indeed influenced by his ethnicity and thus it satisfies WP:MOSBIO which states:

Ethnicity or sexuality should not generally be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities and/or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability.

Removing cited facts from the lede is in bad taste (in lieu of using the v-word) and repeated removal and edit-warring is unwarranted and is going to be reported if it continues. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 03:05, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Not unless he starred in actual Greek movies, should he be officially listed as Greek-American. Norum 03:31, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Where do you get that condition? And he certainly did star as a Greek American in American films; eg Tempest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.75.10.155 (talk) 23:14, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Sexuality

Shouldn't the article mention the fact that Cassavetes was bisexual? (92.7.10.2 (talk) 14:22, 2 November 2012 (UTC))

I don't know. Was he? Paul B (talk) 17:52, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes he was. (5.81.223.106 (talk) 19:06, 10 April 2016 (UTC))

Where's the evidence?--Romanmosaic (talk) 14:28, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Cassavetes was quite open about his affairs with men. (165.120.240.77 (talk) 14:03, 3 September 2016 (UTC))

I've read every biography of Cassavetes. Nothing in them at all about being either gay or bisexual. Nobody he worked with indicated this either Explainador (talk) 10:54, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Cited for vandalism

Someone named Dr K sent me a message :

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at John Cassavetes. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted or removed. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Administrators can block users from editing if they repeatedly vandalize. Thank you. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 02:22, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

I simply corrected Cassavettes' age at which he died (59, not 69) in the body of the article - could someone clarify how this constitutes vandalism?

Thank you, Richard LoveL

Yeah, but you wrote "69" which is wrong. Remember now that I gave you the link? Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 04:44, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

My apologies. R — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.28.2.147 (talk) 04:47, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

No problem. Thank you for understanding. BTW, I didn't give you a warning for the first edit. I only gave you a warning after the edit was repeated. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 04:56, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:John Cassavetes/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

If the article were flushed out a bit more, and made less POV (e.g., there's a section on his "1970s masterpieces"), it would probably make it through a GA nomination. Jun-Dai 00:31, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Last edited at 00:31, 14 August 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 20:09, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Greek American

Cassavetes, was born in the US to a Greek dual national, and was himself a dual national. His only language until age eight was Greek. He was returned to greece by his family shortly after he was born, and came back to the US at age seven. And in his own words, according to Carney's definitive biography "Cassavetes on Cassavetes," he spoke only Greek when returning to the US and learned English after age seven. This means his Greek name was one legally for/by him and should be in the first paragraph, and that his ethnicity is not merely background decent issue, but a primary fact. Moreover his filmmaking, especially his early breakout filmmaking dealt with "ethnic" American experience, and he did play characters that were Greek American/Greek decent Americans. I think this makes this different that someone who is just of an ethnic decent and for example never lived in the country of their ancestry where decent would be a secondary fact. Carney: Since childhood he had functioned as an emotional, imaginative, and social outsider in most situations he found himself in—first as an attention-deficit, hyperactive, non-Englishspeaking, eight-year-old Greek immigrant who couldn’t sit still in school or keep his attention focused on his work;Explainador (talk) 10:45, 10 May 2017 (UTC)