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Talk:Academic dress of the University of Oxford

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Rags

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I believe the reference to rags in the origin of the commoner's gown is incorrect. The streamers on the commoner's and graduate students gowns are the remnants of long closed sleeves, which still can be seen on the flap-collared lay gowns of the higher faculties (BCL, BM, etc), and the very similar gowns of QCs, and even that of the Lord Chancellor. Like the MA gown, 3/4 of the sleeves are purely decorative, there being a slit just above the elbow for the arm to come through, and in effect the lower 3/4 of these sleeves could be called streamers. Andrew Yong 04:44, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)


As it is stated on the page, it is often claimed that it is illegal for undergraduates to wear their mortarboards before graduating; however, on other university documents it says the mortarboard should be worn outside (but not inside). Does anyone know how this "myth" came about? LJade728 13:17, 12 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Probably influence from other universities that do not have a tradition of undergraduate academic dress. It must be very recent, because in pictures of matriculations/degree ceremonies up to the 1990s you can see women undergraduates wearing their mortarboards, as they were then required to do. Andrew Yong 18:06, 14 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]


Does anyone know if visiting students are required to wear any sort of academic dress? I may be overlooking it in the article, but either way, a line regarding the policy on that should probably be included. Beginning 22:01, 27 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It is not entirely clear - as visiting students do not matriculate and are not members of the University, whether or not they wear academic dress appears to depend on the college of which they are members. Andrew Yong 15:10, 2 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should it be mentioned that Oxford is currently considering making subfusc voluntary for exams?

May I suggest to anyone wishing to see some of these hoods visit the Burgon Society wardrobe[1]. I can also recommend the Burgon Society for anyone who wishes to learn or get involved with academic dress Wilfrid Jones

In relation to sub fusc becoming voluntary, it was not the university, but the student union who proposed a referendum on the subject. There was some very amusing sub fusc-related campaigning (including free rides on tour buses and pancake races in oriel quad). 81% of students voted to keep sub fusc and the turn out was very high. In any case, the referendum would only have been a recommendation, and in all liklihood the university would have simply ignored it.

ajc (balliol college)

A Few Questions

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I should be grateful if anybody could clear up a few things for me on Oxford academic dress.

MA DPhil

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Firstly, why is it that a person who holds the degrees of both MA and DPhil customarily wears the dress of an MA? Most Oxford dons would fit into this category and one very rarely sees them wearing any of the possible DPhil outfits. In fact, the only time I have seen the DPhil robe worn is at degree ceremonies when new DPhils wear their robes afterwards and at college Valediction, when the rule seems to be to wear the most colourful dress one owns, so that non-Oxford doctors (who are however Oxford MAs) wear the PhD robe and hood of their other university (London and Nottingham being the most regular appearances) and DPhils (most of them also MAs) wear the DPhil robe, but not with subfusc (which I happen to think looks rather a mess). For examination invigilation they always seem to wear the MA gown and hood. I know that the MA traditionally conferred voting rights in Convocation (although I don't think that is true now). I have also been told that the MA is a higher degree than DPhil, which I think is wrong, since somebody who is an MA and a DPhil still ranks higher than somebody who is only an MA.

Yes, but someone who is only MA outranks someone who is only DPhil. The answer would seem to be practicality and cost - you only need an MA gown and hood (£157 from S&W) to be properly turned out for all occasions. On the other hand a Doctor of Philosophy would need undress gown, hood, bands, full dress robe and convocation habit (£460 + another £200-300 for the habit) to cover all occasions. Andrew Yong 00:02, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Convocation habit

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I've recently seen people in convocation habit at ceremonies that I didn't think required it. I understood that convocation habit was worn only for the admission of the Proctors and Assessor and of the Vice-Chancellor, Pro-Vice-Chancellors, and Clerks of the Market, by Deans presenting at degree ceremonies, and at the Court Sermon. However, I have seen convocation habit worn at matriculation and Encaenia. Is this because they are both a kind of degree ceremony? I.e. does the Dean presenting at matriculation and whoever is presenting candidates for honorary degrees at Encaenia wear convocation habit because they are there to function as if in a degree ceremony?

Encaenia is a meeting of Congregation (used to be Convocation - Causa huius Convocationis est ut iuxta institutionem Honoratissimi et Reverendi admodum Nathaniel, Baronis Crewe, Episcopi Dunelmensis... - but Convocation no longer has the power to grant degrees), so convocation habit is appropriate. I don't know the rationale for matriculation Andrew Yong 00:02, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Subfusc

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Finally, I wonder why most honorands seem not to wear subfusc for Encaenia. Usually they wear suit and tie (men)/suit, dress, etc (women). Some do seem to wear it, so I take it that it is allowed, and maybe even correct. On the other hand, is it only Oxonian honorands who wear subfusc and others wear the lounge suit option? Are non-Oxonians forbidden to wear subfusc?! (Would seem unlikely). I'm sure the university could tell them to wear it, or even go to the expense of giving each one a white bow tie to wear. Subfusc looks so much better...

On which note, when at some point in the future I have to attend a degree ceremony at a university that does not usually use subfusc, would it seem appropriate to wear subfusc anyway? People seem to wear pretty much anything to degree ceremonies that aren't Oxford, Cambridge, Durham, St Andrews, Edinburgh, and anywhere else requiring subfusc, so I can't see it would matter, but maybe it would look offensively "foreign".--Oxonian2006 08:57, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Probably because until they are granted their degrees they are not members of the university, unlike other graduands who are necessarily student members before admission to their degrees - I doubt they are forbidden to wear sub-fusc, merely not required. I suspect this has stratified into custom. At other universities you can do what you want, although remember if you are attending someone else's degree ceremony in Oxford as a spectator (i.e. neither graduating nor presenting) you would wear cap, gown and hood but must _not_ wear sub-fusc. Andrew Yong 00:02, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It should be noted that it is a finable offence to actually wear the hat.--172.188.122.143 22:20, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting - do you have a reference for this? -- Nicholas Jackson 10:10, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There is no rule against wearing the hat generally (and indeed, the ladies' soft cap must be worn at all times, never carried (strictly speaking, though not always obeyed). For the Square, the rule is simply that it must be removed indoors, except by the presiding officer (who doffs it at various points in degree ceremonies). This isn't so much a rule as what would ordinarily be considered polite hat etiquette. However, it is tradition (not statute or bylaw) that those without a BA carry their hat rather than wear it. As for fines, that would depend on the college more than the university, but it is certainly not the policy in the college where I have served on the decanal team, and I have never heard of another dean fining anyone for hat wearing. AMartinho3 (talk) 15:51, 17 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It is noted that "on occasion, uniform swords may be worn" by members of Her Majesty's Forces. What are those occasions?

Second the notion that it would be interested for this to be expanded upon. 82.10.108.49 (talk) 18:46, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Other Masters degrees

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There's no mention on this page of the more recently-introduced undergraduate masters degrees. I'm thinking of things like MEng, MMath, MPhys, MChem, MEarthSci..... Should be added but no time now! --Casper Gutman 08:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tag in Subfusc section

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Does it seem reasonable to now remove the "lack of sources" tag in the Subfusc section? QuantumGroupie 10:28, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Undergraduates and Mortar Boards

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"male undergraduates must remove their caps indoors. Out of doors, caps may be worn, but it is customary to touch or raise one's cap as a salute to senior university or college officers. " "Undergraduates may not wear their mortar boards until their graduation ceremony"

These two sentences contradict each other. An undergraduate may not wear a cap until he is graduated - at which point he is a graduate. Male undergrads must not wear a cap indoors or outdoors. 163.1.42.12 16:05, 21 May 2007 (UTC)Tom, Oxford[reply]

The Proctors' and Assessor's Memorandum deals with the wearing of academic dress by student members. Its references to the wearing of caps suggest that the second of the two sentences in the article ("Undergraduates may not wear...") is incorrect. Does anyone else read this differently to me? QuantumGroupie 18:42, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am a a current undergrad at oxford - we have been told that we are not allowed to wear out mortarboards indoors until we have graduated, though we may wear them outside. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.67.156.180 (talk) 15:17, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Gowns for MChem, MPhys, MMath etc.

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The above quote is from the article as it stands. Is it strictly accurate that the MA gown is worn after 21 terms, as stated here, or is it true that the MA gown is worn "on admission to membership of Convocation" as stated here? This wouldn't have made a difference in the old days: convocation consisted mainly of those with an MA, and as people with an MChem etc. never got an MA they were given special membership of convocation 21 terms after matriculation. Now, though, convocation consists of every graduate of the university.

I was advised (a couple of years ago) that I should wear a BA gown during my actual graduation ceremony but an MA gown at all subsequent occasions, but the university offers little official advice -- on asking the university administration I was told to ask my college, and on asking the college I was told to ask the member of the college domestic staff who dealt with the hiring of gowns for graduation. He seemed the only one willing to pass judgement on the question! Casper Gutman (talk • contributions) 15:56, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Where is the evidence that MA-status MPhys etc can no longer wear MA Gowns? I find only a link to an unpublished letter. I would expect a link to the Gazette or to the Decrees and Regulations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.70.217.172 (talk) 14:58, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A few suggestions

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"The University of Oxford has a long tradition of academic dress, and a visitor to Oxford during term will see academic dress worn on a regular basis" I disagree with the opening line; one will only see subfusc worn regularly around town during the latter part of Trinity term, when the majority of students have exams. During Michaelmas and Hilary I would say that, despite what the Oxford stereotype would have you believe, it is rare to see students in subfusc on a regular basis.

  • "Academic dress" doesn't just mean including subfusc. In many colleges gowns are worn daily at Hall, for example. One might argue about the phrase "visitor to Oxford": does this mean a tourist visiting the city, or is Oxford here intended to mean the University? If the former, then I think you have a point, although with the number of DPhil vivas now one does see fully attired members of the university on the streets throughout the year. If the latter is intended, then probably the sentence should be adjusted appropriately. QuantumGroupie (talk) 08:31, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It certainly needs to be clearer - when on a visit to the town last month for the morning (and not going inside any colleges though I did go into the archives) I only saw one person in AD - an MA coming out of a college (forget which but it's next to All Souls). This is more than on previous archival visits - when is the best time to go AD watching? Timrollpickering (talk) 15:44, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree - I'm currently an undergraduate and I rarely see academic dress worn outside formal hall. I don't think it's a very helpful statement tbh and perhaps replacing it with a bit of context might make the article more helpful. JacobJHWard (talk) 05:35, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Under the "When academic dress is worn" section, one bullet point is "College collections (tests that take place at the start of term)". This certainly isn't the case at my college (St Catherine's), you can wear what you want to collectons, and the atmosphere can be quite informal.

  • It is the case at some colleges, though. The sentence leading to those bullet points says

Regulations regarding gowns differ from college to college, but gowns are commonly worn to:

which, I think, makes the situation clear enough. QuantumGroupie (talk) 08:31, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest these are corrected —Preceding unsigned comment added by Krusader86 (talk • contribs) 18:42, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Images

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This article's great, in my opinion. I think a really massive improvement would be the images, though. Two images are a bit sad looking; one is of a hood that's rarely (never, in my brief knowledge) worn, and one of a hood worn with the wrong gown. A pic of a BA hood+gown would really be the best.

Surely there's an Oxonian out there who's willing to post up some shots of them in their various garb? If it doesn't happen within the next few months, I'd be happy to post up some demonstrative shots from when I visit the campus. To clarify (I've never uploaded photos before), do I just need to ask the subject of the photo if I can release it to wikipedia? :)122.106.209.159 (talk) 08:00, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, if you take a photo you own the copyright. As long as there is no breach of privacy, your subject has no right in English law over the use of his image. Andrew Yong (talk) 10:48, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Description of hoods

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I know the new booklet has just come out and it uses 'edged and lined x silk'. However, I would propose the use of the term 'bound' to mean edging as put forward by the Burgon Society as edging means a slightly different thing (i.e. a strip of silk sewn on the outside of the cowl as opposed to the inside (a 'facing') and outside). Bound refers to a strip of silk on the inside and out or that the lining has been brought over to the outside. --Charlie Huang 【遯卋山人】 11:00, 28 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a current undergrad at Oxford University and I've noticed that number of points on this page seem to be incorrect; - Gowns are not warn to lectures in the Examination Schools. - Gowns are not worn in normal chapel services -Gowns are not worn for collections - Gowns but NOT caps are worn for university examinations and matriculation - caps must be carried but not worn. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.67.156.180 (talk) 15:21, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Gowns are only worn to major public lectures - corrected. Collections and chapel depend on the college concerned. Andrew Yong (talk) 09:14, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Collections

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Does anybody's college actually still make them wear gowns for collections? I've never had to, but don't know if that's unusualFaust.TSFL (talk) 14:15, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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