Talk:List of institutions of higher education in Russia

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moved from User talk:Olivier

You created a new entry (List of universities in Russia) and added a few links to it from various places. You need to be aware of the differences in the Russian educational system which may create problems with the term University. The majority of xUSSR educational institutions are not Universities in the US sence. They used to be called Institute of this or that technology. They usually offer M.S. and Ph.D. equivalents in a single field only, usually technology. For example there is Institute of Railroad Transportation, offering M.S. and Ph.D. in Mech. Eng. for Railroads (yes, M.S. is THAT specific). Probably 90% or more of all University-level education is carried out in places like that. The schools were renamed Universities recently, but they still remain Institutes of Technology.

I think a disclaimer like the one above should be placed on the page or an article should be named differently.

Gene s

I just want to correct Gene s's statement. Institutes were not simply renamed. Some of them were actually converted into the Universities (so, if a new name includes University, it is indeed a university. The ones that could not obtain a university status either became academies, or maintained the institute status (some of them may have technical university in the title, but it would not be the same as university).--Ezhiki 16:49, Jun 3, 2004 (UTC)

I think you are confusing courses given at these schools with degrees. Do you believe that an Institute-renamed-University now offers high education degrees in, say, philosophy and physics in addition to whatever technology degrees it was giving before? Please provide examples. It should be degrees, not just courses. Gene s 07:17, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

They are supposed to start developing degree courses for a variety of dergees. Those that don't do that are either breaking the rule (and will eventually be stripped of the University status), or have people in government to cover them. I don't have specific examples for these two cases though.--Ezhiki 16:18, Jun 11, 2004 (UTC)

Well, if so I think it's rather an exception. What is happenning is that I think some Institutes are expanding their economics, law etc. depts since these fields are believed to be in demand. I think if we list all high-education level institutions together it would devaluate the word University with respect to RF. RF now has more "universities" than the UK, France & Germany combined. That's not normal.Gene s 08:09, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The reason for renaming was purely economical - University faculty & staff is paid a little bit better than an Institute f&s. --Gene s 07:17, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Yes, the reason was economical, however, more degrees had to be offered by an institute/academy in order to get a University status. Examples: Far Easter Technological Institute (old name) is now Vladivostok State University of Economics (new name). They are now offering a variety of degrees, a lot of which are not technical (e.g., psychology, sociology, management, linguistics). Another example: Far Eastern Naval Engineering College (old name) is now a Naval State University. They are offering psychology degrees (and maybe more, but I am only aware of psychology).--Ezhiki 16:18, Jun 11, 2004 (UTC)

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Far Eastern State Technical University (FESTU) is different from Far Eastern State University (or National university as these silly people call themselves now in English even though the Russian name has not changed). They have always been separate, they have separate locations, and they in fact consider themselves competitors. If you need their website addresses, let me know.

National-State. I guess we have to follow the name they are using. If they call themselves National, we should too, even if I would also rather call them State.Gene s 08:09, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

We certainly will have to use their new name, no doubt about that, but the old name should probably also be mentioned (when I saw this "National" university in the list, I thought it's one of those new no good money-making establishments, and added the "State" University on a separate line, because I was surprised it is not in the list :). Only later it occured to me to check their website).--Ezhiki 13:54, Jun 23, 2004 (UTC)

FENU has always been a university, and FESTU became a university fairly recently. This is one university that fits into the second section of the article perfectly.

Vladivostok State University of Economics is different. While it used to be a technological institute, it grew tremendousy in the past several years. The range of degrees it now offers easily rivals the range offered by the FENU, so I moved it back into the first section.--Ezhiki 18:20, Jun 22, 2004 (UTC)

OK. I's confusing though that they are called University of Economics. University means universal education. Kind of like not-quite-universal university. You should also keep in mind that you can't explain these fine details to every wiki maintainer. By placing a new-university to the first section you are opening a gate for other maintainers to add scoools there. Without formal criteria the first section will be very hard to maintain.Gene s 08:09, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

This University is very business-oriented. Most of its degrees are in business and economics, hence the name (government financing provisions also played a role when the name was assigned). As for the other maintainers not knowing the fine details, well, this is why there is always someone who knows about a subject covered in the article slightly more that the other guy :) While inaccuracies are unavoidable, they should be fixed whenever possible.--Ezhiki 13:54, Jun 23, 2004 (UTC)

Other higher educational institutions

What about other higher educational institutions? For example, academias?--Nixer 18:25, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Why only universities listed?

In Russia there is no defference between university, institute, academy or some higher shool. So why only universities listed? Can we say for example Phystech is university just as Caltech is said to be iniversity in its article?--Nixer 18:57, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

What do you mean there is no difference between universities, institutes, academies, etc.? These are all different statutes, all of which have legal definitions. Funding of (state) universities is very different from funding of (state) institutes, for example. In general, universities offer a broader range of degrees than institutes, and academies are highly specialized.

As for why only universities are listed, that's because the article is called "List of universities in Russia". I can't see a good reason preventing us from moving this to "List of facilities of higher education in Russia" (a better title is welcome, if you can think of any), and including sections for institutes and academies as well, but in this form it seems a good enough reason to me to omit everything that's not universities proper. Hope this helps.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:09, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Is Caltech university or institute? Is Phystech university or institute? Besides there other higher educational institutions, such as высшая школа (высшая школа эконоимики, высшая школа менеджмента), высшее училище (высшее художественное училище), консерватория etc--Nixer 18:07, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Caltech is not located in Russia, hence it cannot be classified according to Russian classification scheme (we are talking about a list of universities in Russia, remember?). I cannot tell you anything about Phystech since I am unable to access their website, but it most certainly has status of either university or institute. By the way, just because a Russian educational facility is not a university, it does not make it somehow inferior or low-quality. It just shows that it has a different status.

If you are interested in how exactly universities in Russia differ from other types of facilities of higher education, I suggest you study Приказ № 1938 Министерства Образования и Науки Российской Федерации (Федеральной Службы по Надзору в Сфере Образования и Науки) Об утверждении показателей деятельности и критериев государственной аккредитации высших учебных заведений, from September 30, 2005. It should address all the issues you raised above. I hope you'll read it before making any further comments.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 19:07, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

As Nixer explained I expanded the article to include all "universities". Nickieee 09:03, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Do you mean non-universities should be listed as universities?--Nixer 10:12, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

No, but I agree "In Russia there is no defference between university, institute, academy or some higher shool." The page should perhaps be retitled "List of institutions of higher learning in Russia." Nickieee 11:26, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Links to non-existent articles

Dudes -- what's up with that? There are more links, on this list, to pages that don't exist than there are to ones that do. Why? Sugarbat (talk) 21:30, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

The special status of Siberia

What is so special about education in Siberia that it has to be listed separately? Why don't we have chapters called "Education in European Russia", "Education in Far East" etc? 193.11.232.250 (talk) 17:18, 15 February 2010 (UTC)