Talk:Bruno Frey

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Untitled

This article was listed on votes for deletion; see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Bruno Frey. PoccilScript 01:04, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Self-plagiarism

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

User HansKeppel has been indefinitely blocked for BLP violations and sock puppetry, his content additions have been reverted. Safiel (talk) 03:53, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Extended content

I've removed most of the giant block of text about his supposed self-plagiarism. (It may be that the rest should be removed too, because the sources are poor or the text is original analysis.) The appropriate response to the impending deletion of a page - which people are voting to delete precisely because it's undue, unsourced negative information about a living person - is not to add everything into the biography of the person in question. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:30, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The suggestion from the discussion on the original page was to merge the information from that page, but it is clear to me that I should have awaited the outcome of the discussion. Please substantiate allegations of poor text and OR. Please also substantiate claim of negative information and elaborate on why the information is undue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HansKeppel (talk • contribs) 21:41, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's original research to say "This article and this article are similar," sourced only to the articles in question. A reliable source (not a blog) needs to have made the same observation. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 22:45, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My claim is that the wikipedia article reflects the consensus of a large group of academic economists on the Econjobrumors page. All visitors are in the process of acquiring or hold a PhD in economics. HansKeppel (talk) 22:52, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, no, a forum thread wouldn't be acceptable for these sorts of claims even if all the members were prominent economists (and all the comments are anonymous, so we really don't know). –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 23:08, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Could you elaborate as to what claims on the present version of the page on Bruno Frey you refer specifically? — Preceding unsigned comment added by HansKeppel (talk • contribs) 23:14, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I already removed the really lengthy stuff, but now that I take a closer look at what remains - basically everything in that section that isn't/can't be sourced to the WSJ article or the JEP letter to Frey. Economic Logic and EconJobRumors are right out, and we can't cite Frey's papers either (cf. ref 18) or the guidelines for plagiarism (ref 13) because that's OR/SYN again. The Andrew Gelman blog, besides being of questionable reliability, is actually cited wrongly, since Gelman doesn't accuse Frey of self-plagiarism (he cites an anonymous e-mail whose conclusions he does not endorse). The Olaf Storbeck blog is also questionably reliable, but the fact that it's discussed in the WSJ piece means we shouldn't need to cite it directly. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 23:33, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your reply. Olaf Storbeck is a journalist for the Handelsblatt newspaper with a circulation of 145.000 copies and he translates his own published articles to English. The WSJ is not the primary source, it summarizes Handelsblatt journalism. Olaf Storbeck is the primary source of the Handelsblatt articles. In his comments on WSJ, Storbeck credits Econjobrumors and Gelman for discovering the issue. Maybe we should add that Andrew Gelman did not think Frey has done anything wrong. But he does report on a possible violation of academic integrity by Frey so the citation is correct. Andrew Gelman is a professor of statistics and political science and director of the Applied Statistics Center at Columbia University. The statement on Zurich's policies is a factual description of the document. It does not say that Frey has violated these rules and it is clearly relevant. To me it's unclear why we should not provide links to the scientific articles that were mentioned in the Handelsblatt and WSJ articles and the letter of the editor of the Journal of Economic Perspectives.HansKeppel (talk) 23:50, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Comment to modification of introduction

Deletion of the last sentence. Justification: Frey has never admitted to "self-plagiarism". In light of the more recent developments and the lack of clarity [see http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diskussion:Bruno_Frey], the "case" should be given less emphasis; in particular, it should not be included right away in the introduction. --178.198.122.41 (talk) 18:28, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Read his letter to David Autor, or the interview with Tages Anzeiger, both of which can be found in the references and both of which include acknowledgements by Frey that he self-plagiarized. It might not be appropriate to mention the many other informally documented cases because they are too close to being primary research. However the Titanic case is clear-cut and well-sourced, and clearly significant enough to warrant its own subsection and a mention in the introduction. --Martha6981 —Preceding undated comment added 15:07, 16 May 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Work

As concerns a) "Frey is one of the pioneers in this field" Gordon Tulloch, Public Choice (Review, Frey, Bruno S. (1978). Modern Political Economy, Oxford: Martin Robertson); c) "Bruno Frey provides a stimulating and wide-ranging discussion of personal motivation that opens out traditional economics to provide a more mature view of individuals as being sensitive to private and moral motives as well as market incentives." -- Alan Hamlin, University of Southampton, UK. (Review, Not just for the money. An economic theory of personal motivation. E. Elgar, Cheltenham [u.a.], 1997).--178.198.122.41 (talk) 18:32, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Self-Plagiarism"

The issue needs to be covered in this article as thoroughly as possible. Yet, the creation of a whole sub-section puts too much weight on it. (see also "Comment to modification of introduction")--178.198.122.41 (talk) 19:13, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Too much weight according to what? The allegations are well-sourced, he's lost his job at Zurich over it, and instances of academic dishonesty are always considered notable for academics. --Martha6981 —Preceding undated comment added 15:11, 16 May 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Frey got his own website for documentation of self-plagiarism, FreyPlag, following the wikis for documentation of plagiarism by the German ex secretary for defense Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg and other politicians. I am not sure whether this should be covered but it includes information about a number of colleagues Frey closely collaborates with and with whom he seems to have engaged in self-plagiarism, also on topics prominently mentioned here, like terrorism, motivation and awards. This was also reported by blogs. [1] Zingophalitis (talk) 02:12, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Swiss and German press reported about the FreyPlag wiki here [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]. I'll therefore add the information to the article. Zingophalitis (talk) 15:46, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The last few sentences of this section do not make sense. What does the German ex secretary have to do with Bruno Frey? They both were involved in scandals, but so what? The connection should be clearer, or I would suggest the sentences be removed. --Che kid (talk) 01:15, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the technology that was used to show the plagiarism - cooperation in a wiki - was introduced for the case of the German ex secretary. Zingophalitis (talk) 08:41, 9 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Editing ahoy!

This page is in desperate need of editing, particularly with regards to WP:NOTCV, WP:NOTPROMOTION, and WP:PUFFERY. I will shortly begin an attempt to rein things in a bit, and this note is simply a heads-up to those of you who might wish to participate. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 14:34, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]