Talk:Freestyle rap

This could be condensed into rap. Morganmichaels 05:23, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC) This article should be included with "flyting".

Yes, this could be, but not all the subcategories of rap listed. And who is to decide which subcategories need their own article. This article could use with some history, and maybe a list of famous freestylers, and then it would be easily too detailed to be subsumed in the main article on rap music. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogostick 06:33, Nov 26, 2003 (UTC)

I think this should be moved to freestyling, because the current title makes it sound like its a subgenre of rap music. It isn't so much a subgenre, though, because it can be old school rap, gangsta rap, alternative rap, as long as it is improvised. Freestyle rapping might be better... Tuf-Kat 07:46, Nov 27, 2003 (UTC)

Given that a search for "freestyling" in wikipedia leads to this page this is more a discussion about changing the title of the page and in that sense i would agree that it should be called 'freestyling'. i think this is much more in tune with the way this art form is referred to by rappers and other people interested in hip hop music. i think this also deals with Tim Ivorson's concerns below, and i also agree with him, freestyling is more a kind of performance and not so much a static thing (ie a freestyle rap) RedwoodwordRedwoodword

I've been making hip hop music and battling for around 10 years, I've represented my region and my country in battle tournaments, and in my opinion 'freestyle rap' is not synonymous with 'battle rap'. Back in the day the main component of freestyle battles was freestyling and premeditated lines would every now and then be slipped in. Now days we have written accapella battles which are still quite obviously rap battles but are not 'freestyle' as in off the top of the head. When I was coming up battling also extended to audio tracks in the form of dis tracks which were common place. In short I don't think it's appropriate to insinuate 'freestyle rap' as it is defined here as being synonymous with 'battle rap' etc. and I think most of those established artists would agree. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Norepinepherinergic (talk • contribs) 08:05, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Battles

The section on battles mentions that using pre-composed or written in advance lyrics is considered dishonorable, but practically everybody I talk to agrees that public disses for 'writing' are mostly just pro forma, since many or most freestylers come into battles armed with precanned verses. I can't find a source online to cite this, does anyone have one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.114.19.5 (talk) 03:34, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Is this where I can post an edit suggestion? I have a suggestion to add a mention about "online battling", it's grossly mising in this entry in my opinion...

Hip-hop battling is as old as hip-hop itself and should definitely be mentioned as an important foundation of hip-hop. However, the wikipedia section under "freestyle rap" and "battles" reads:

"As hip-hop evolved in the early 80s MCs gained their fame through live battles with other MCs. Freestyle battles can take place anywhere: street corners, on stage at a concert, or in school."

and is incomplete because it leaves out "online battling". With the growth of Web 2.0 and social media, hip hop battling has significantly moved online. I feel it's important to mention this to the readers, otherwise the entry appears grossly outdated. Furthermore, I feel it's valuable to put this in context by giving them a strong example of where and how online battling is taking place. Goldmic.com has pioneered online battling in 2001 with it's Patented online battling system and it is the #1 online hip hop battling website. Since 2001, there have been over 200,000 battles and 1.5 million votes from members from 20+ countries. This information is relevant and valuable to the readers of this wiki entry. I hope you guys consider and agree? —Preceding unsigned comment added by DJ-City (talk • contribs) 01:48, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

As one of the editors who kept reverting the references to the website as spam, I figure I should chime in. I have no opinion on whether online battling should be added to the article or not, but the insistence of adding that site as an example troubles me. I've seen that website added to several different rap related articles, and it looked a lot like advertising. So, while I have no objections to adding the online battling section, is it really that important to give an example? Why couldn't we just leave the website out? I should also note that I did some digging and, once upon a time, we did have a mention of online batting, which was removed without any explanation [1]. Should we add this back to the article? Apparition^{11 Complaints}/Mistakes 06:59, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Guys, leaving "online battling" out of the discussion is grossly outdated. The fact is, today, more hip hop battles take place online than in the streets or any other medium. There are hundreds if not thousands of small battle forums online. There is also Goldmic.com, a hip hop battling website that has hosted over 200,000 hip hop battles with over 2 million votes cast. I have been on that site since 2001 and just want readers of this section to get the most relevant and comprehensive information about what is going on with "online battling" today. If you guys have another hip hop battling site you feel is worth mentioning, please speak up. I mention Goldmic because it's the oldest, largest and most respected hip hop battling website around. You guys can check for yourselves if you don't believe me. We are doing the readers of this wikipedia hip hop battling section a disservice if we omit this information. Can we vote on whether we should add this information? —Preceding unsigned comment added by DJ-City (talk • contribs) 21:52, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a democracy, so a vote wouldn't accomplish anything. We go by consensus instead. The link doesn't look appropriate to me. Including more inappropriate links wouldn't help; quite the opposite, it would just attract WP:SPAM. I haven't seen anyone object to an online battling section, it's the example that you are so insistent to include. Leave it out and I won't have a problem with it. It seems that you do not want to even consider the section without including that website, but if you would, you would be met with a lot less resistance (I'll note that I wasn't the only one who previously reverted it as spam). Apparition^{11 Complaints}/Mistakes 22:48, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Ok, point taken. We could just mention online battling and it would be an improvement, but it would still be incomplete in the sense that the reader is left without an easy way to verify the information. The vast majority of readers will wonder "where is online battling taking place online?" and "Is this true? As we all know, the world wide web is extremely vast, so readers will not be able to verify our claim easily. Wouldn't it be an improvement if we substantiate it with at least one example? Goldmic has pioneered online battling and is the largest online hip hop battling destination - it is the best example of online hip-hop battling. Any of us can verify this information or suggest a better alternative example. I read Wikepedia's Spam guidelines and including a mention of a relevant example is in line with the Spam guidelines. Mentioning Goldmic follows the guidelines because it is highly relevant (they pioneered online hip-hop battling), we are not linking it to the site and it is neutral with no adveritising pitch since we are just stating a fact. I copied and pasted some WK:Spam guidelines which support this view:

"When an article on an otherwise encyclopedic topic has the tone of an advertisement, the article can often be salvaged by rewriting it in a neutral point of view. Elements of articles about products or services with brand names can also be combined under a common topic or category to facilitate unbiased and collaborative information by including information about the competition and about different alternatives."

"Such examples should also be highly relevant to the article topic."

"If your product is truly relevant to an article, others will agree—try the talk page. We usually recommend that editors be bold in adding directly to articles. But if the above advice makes you concerned that others will regard your contribution as spam, you can find out without taking that risk: Describe your work on the article's talk page, asking other editors if it is relevant." —Preceding unsigned comment added by DJ-City (talk • contribs) 04:12, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the readers should be able to verify the information per WP:V, but this should be done through reliable sources, not by giving examples. I'll point out another part of the spam guideline, here, it says that you should be careful when giving examples. In an article purely about online battling, then examples might be more appropriate, but since this is about freestyle rap in general, I don't see as to how it is particularly relevant to this article. Apparition^{11 Complaints}/Mistakes 04:28, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

(edit) I should also note that Wikipedia is not a directory. If readers want to know where to find these sites, they can use Google. Apparition^{11 Complaints}/Mistakes 04:33, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Sections

this article should probably be divided into sections, something like; History, Methodology, Great Freestylers, Established Competitions, etc. ReverendG 18:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Freestyle rap is not a rap==

The recent addition of a into the lead senetence (like so, "Freestyle rap is, strictly speaking, a rap...") makes it sound like a single performance, rather than a kind of performance. Tim Ivorson 21:16, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

here are some freestyle rappers:

ace, sick, reign man, gza [of wun tang clan], rza [of wu tang clan], freeway,Murder Mook [highly regarded as the best at this present time], Jin [Winner of BET's freestyle friday and the 2005 power summit], Cassidy, Serious jones, Jae millz, party arty, Loaded lux, Eddie morris, Reed dollarz [another higly regarded and known for a flawless delivery], trigga, Swann, Rhymefest [winner of scribble jam 2004], Eyedea, Shellz, T rex, Young neles, Un kasa [of diplomats], Hell rell [of diplomats], 40 cal [of diplomats], Proffesor green, Iron soleman, Nems, Red dott, Posta boy [Winner of freestyle friday] Whyte out [winner of freestyle friday] Orbit etc etc. It also must be noted that alot of the most popular artist today came up in the rap game through being known for freestyling like Nas and Eminem.

You should have written that better... and how could you forget KRS-One and even Common? --Taurus8 sam 06:37, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Many of the rappers listed here use pre-written rhymes in battle; Loaded Lux, Cassidy, Serious Jones, Jae Millz, and T Rex have used pre-written rhymes.--Vivify (talk) 09:35, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Canibus and Freestyling

Deleted the part about canibus and freestyling

1.Canibus method of freestyling was known even before he became famous in 1998 , he admittied it when asked in an interview, his former partner even praised him for his ability ("In rhyming battles, Canibus was extremely aggressive. He memorized like 40 rhymes," Webb reminisces )and was praised for it some years latter by ras kass.He was never critised for it , nor did he ever tried to deney it he would even put word for word verses that he had freestyled( as in his defenition) into his album (see buckingham palace) if he was trying to hide this he was doing a very bad job of it, infact freesyling prewriten verses is realitivily common something that rappers such as DMX, eminem and chino xl have been known to do.

2.There is no credibility to the now newly formed on wikipeida rumor that canibus was called Milli Vanilli, search for it yourself.

3.Canibus's carrer did not end in 2003, after his second album failed to sell up to expetations he went independent and released 3 albums for 2001-2003 of those that speak of canibus's carrer ending the date usually given is either 1998 OR 2001 1998 is argued as a backlash from a well publisized battle with hip hop pioner llcoolj. 2001 because of the release of his controversial album entitled "c true hollywood stories" see http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005QXG9/sr=8-1/qid=1146250128/ref=sr_1_1/002-8625500-0020840?%5Fencoding=UTF8 and http://www.rapreviews.com/archive/2002_01F_stories.html In fact in 2003 the album he released outsold the ones he released made in 2001 and 2002 it even had the rare honour(for an indepenant artist) of debuting at no 7 of the independat billboard charts http://www.babygrande.com/news.jsp?id=25 Canibus did not join the army for political reasons and he has never voiced support for the war, even going as far as to hint in one of his mixtape songs that he supported John Kerry "Watching John Kerry spit over some Michal more beats". In 2004 he was sought out by wyclef john of fuggue fame to join his record label( so much for a dead carrer)he refused and was able to release 3 different albums on 3 different labels in the span of one year in 2005(Mind control on gladiatior records, Cloak and dagger on head trama records and mic club master on micclub).At present he is not the vice ceo of head trama records.

Merging Freestyle Battle

I suggested merging freestyle battle into this article. The two seem to be closely intertwined, and both articles are short. Objections? PaulKishimoto 05:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I say its a good idea. Rever

Ok Its cool with me Home Boy User: Bloveprince endG 06:11, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Voice and style

"...non-scripted, non-rehearsed, uncut, and the rawest form of hip-hop." "...rap uncensored from what is inside."

Phrases like these make for inappropriate voice - In places, the article reads like an attempt at a hip hop manifesto, or perhaps a soliloquy from 8 Mile. 24.84.202.57 00:36, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the comment above there needs to be a bit more rigor to the writing if it is going to reach wikipedia's standards. there also seems to be some confusion about what freestyling is as is evidence by comments like "freestyling prewritten verses is fairly common".

for this reason i'm suggesting that the article begins with the two main definitions of freestyling that i am aware of. i.e. freestyling as a free association written rap (no particular theme, the documentary freestyle the art of rhyme could be cited as a source in this case) and freestyling more or less as it is defined in the opening paragraph of the article although with some adjustments to style and voice. these changes might be something like what i've written in the following paragraph.

Freestyle rap refers to an improvisational form of rapping, performed with few or no previously composed lyrics. In this sense freestyle rap is defined in opposition to raps that are written and memorized. Freestyle rapping involves producing a continuous flow of words, often guided by both rhythmic and rhyme based structures that are generally performed in time with a musical accompaniment. In order to keep the flow of words going rappers will often make references to places and objects in their immediate surroundings. The imperative of 'keeping the flow' means that the thinking process that goes on while the rapper is freestyling may also enter into the content of the freestyle rap.

feedback appreciated Redwoodword 01:42, 13 April 2007 (UTC) Redwoodword

I think that's definitely an improvement over the current first paragraph. I would agree that it should be put in the place of the current one, but I hesitate to do it myself. Anyone object? Rssaddict (talk) 00:24, 25 June 2008 (UTC) ppl like men —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.80.212.214 (talk) 20:44, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

The Dozens

Freestyle rap battling has strong ties to the tradition of the dozens. Perhaps someone who knows more than I can produce a sentence or two? 67.188.31.236 (talk)

Grindtime/ Jumpoff TV

Just thought the new school of battling should be mentioned in this article.

http://grindtimenow.com/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.235.165.63 (talk) 00:45, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't see why King Of The Dot is included but not Grindtime and URL, two battle leagues that made it popular in the last few years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.114.121.126 (talk) 10:10, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Yeah I agree, someone should add that and http://Dontflop.com/ 92.19.46.54 (talk) 18:58, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Battle rap

The same "battle rap" content at the bottom of this "freestyle rap" article is at battle rap, so unless anyone objects, I'll remove it from here and just keep it where it belongs (in the battle rap article). Both articles now have sufficient separate content to warrant being individual articles, which can be built on. Also there is not a clear enough link between the two topics to have them under the "freestyle" heading - battle raps can be freestyled, but it is not necessary (as is mentioned in the references), and freestyles, whether they are written or improvised, do not have to be rapped in a battle context (again, as the references show). Crateescape101 (talk) 01:31, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Well said and well-done. --Junius49 (talk) 16:26, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! Crateescape101 (talk) 21:10, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Requesting Sources

The last few edits with User:Topbookclub have been conflicting, since the user is adding information that has not been verified. The user mentions the following statement without any reliable sources that support his claim:

However, most modern battles are prewritten weeks before the actual battle to give the paying audience in large forums a better show. Prewritten battles were previously frowned upon, and were cause enough to dismiss a participant from a battle.

I would not contest against the user if the user is able to provide some form of source that actually supports his claims. However, mentioning that he is an "expert" of the topic would fall under original research, which Wikipedia does attempt to avoid. the sentence the user removes is supported by a reliable source, which can be verified through Google Books. It is a published source. Again, just the statement that "I am an expert" does not make it an acceptable reason to make a statement. If the user, or anyone else, is able to provide a reliable source making that support the quoted statement, I will not contest against the edit. --Esanchez_{(Talk 2 me or Sign here)} 05:55, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

• Could you please provide a proof that you are not a troll? The subject of hip hop or battle rap is clearly not something that you are familiar with, and this article is not one that you should be editing until you have at least watched a few battles. The equivlent of your actions would be to delete a paragraph written by Hulk Hogan himself stating that pro wrestling is staged. Just as most people know that wrestling is staged, the FACT that most battles today are prewritten is common knowledge in the world of hip hop and battle rap. - User:Topbookclub 2:14 EST —Preceding undated comment added 06:14, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia isn't about "common knowledge" it's about verifiable knowledge. Without a source a statement like "most modern battles are prewritten weeks before the actual battle" is at best "original research" but is actually highly problematic because there is no qualification. Battles happen all over the world and what might be true in one area may not be true in another. Given that this is an article on freestyling defined as an improvised form of rap it should focus on freestyle battles, not prewritten battles as they are not relevant to the page. A reference of this length to prewritten battles certainly has no place in the first paragraph of the page which should be dedicated to a clear and concise definition of freestyling not a discussion of prewritten battles.