Talk:Premie/archive

Jossi, is there any other reason that the source that you deleted is unreliable except that it comes from the ex-premie website? Why is the Elan Vital website more reliable than the ex-premie website? Besides the link that you deleted was not an opionion but a literal transcript. Andries 15:58, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

What is your point, Andries? What is that you are trying to prove, that "premie" is still used? So what?. --≈ jossi ≈

Do we need this article?

I question the validity of this article as it stands. It will surely remain a stub forever. Wouldn't it be better to redirect it to Past teachings of Prem Rawat? ≈ jossi ≈ 03:33, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)

Why to past teachings? Wouldn't it make more sense to redirect it to Prem Rawat? -Willmcw 04:17, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)

Past teachings because for the last 15 years the hindi word premie is not been in use besides India, Nepal, and Mauritius (weher there is a large Hindi-speaking population) ≈ jossi ≈ 13:56, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)

It still seems like it would make more sense to redirect to the person rather that the teachings. And why not include the current name that followers are known by? Cheers, -Willmcw 19:54, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)

I am a "follower", and my wife calls me José :) . Nobody calls me anyting else. You can call me a "student of Maharaji", if you wish. ≈ jossi ≈ 23:16, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, but that doesn't answer my question. Maybe you're wife doesn't call you a "person with Knowledge", but I see that other followers refer to each other that way.[1] A) Is that incorrect? How do you know what other followers besides your wife do? What's your source? B) If it is in use, why not include it? Thanks, -Willmcw 23:41, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)

You can check any of the official websites http://maharaji.net, http://tprf.org/, http://contactinfo.net/, http://inspire.contactinfo.net, etc. There is no mention of any specific terms besides student such as in here: http://tprf.org/what_peop_say.htm#uk, here http://tprf.org/media_press_room.htm#record, and here http://tprf.org/media_press_room.htm. The link that you posted does only refers to "ex-premies". That is the term that a very, very small group of critical ex-followers has chosen to refer themselves as. I don't know what other students do or call themselves (it is not a social club, you know), and the students I know I call them by their name. ≈ jossi ≈ 00:00, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The source I provided is from someone who claims to be a current follower. He repeatedly uses "PWK" or "people with Knowledge" to refer to other followers. Here's another site, which actually has "PWK" in the url: http://pwkindia.bravejournal.com/ Here's another source, apparently written by and for followers, that uses "PWK".[2] And another: [3] There are more, but that should be sufficient to prove that followers call other followers "PWK". -Willmcw 00:45, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)

This http://www.findingout.org/all_events.cfm site does not say that. It says "People that have received the techniques of Knowledge". This site:http://www.biom.net/dojo.php/eventteam/C161/does not mention to "pwk". So, the only site you found was: http://www.biom.net/dojo.php/eventteam/C161/ with a single mention of the term "pwk", besides the original source you provided.

Compare that with these in which "pwk" is not used: http://maharaji.net/, http://contactinfo.net. http://tprf.org. http://whatpeoplesay.org, http://maharajiblog.net, http://voiceofmaharaji.info, http://maharaji.blogspot.com/, http://blogharbor.maharaji.com/, http://elanvital.org/, http://elanvital.org.uk. http://floridaconnect.net/, http://elanvital.org.au, http://http://rajvidyakender.org/, http://aroundtheplanet.info, http://www.primeacademy.com.my/, http://promiseoflife.com/, http://www.elanvital.org.nz/, http://www.info-es.net/, http://amaroo.org/, http://www.selfcontacto.org.ve/, http://www.londoninfo.org.uk/,http://www.findingout.org/, http://www.aucklandconnect.org/, http://www.minneapolisresources.com/, http://www.knowledgenw.org/,http://www.torontoconnect.org/, http://www.simplement.org/, http://www.insight.org.sg/, http://www.wordpaint.com/, http://www.descubriendo.net/ .... I'll better stop here, I think you'll get the point...

It hope that it is now clear, that nowadays students do not call themseles "anything" beyond "students". In fact the Goggle test will show you that most, if not all of these references to "pwk" are from critic's websites. ≈ jossi ≈ 04:37, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)

• This sunday the 5 th of december the pwk of this world held one more inroduktion to maharaji s message i Pushkar a well known turist spot 3 hr south of Jaipur, 20 new persons came ./Hakan [4]
• All PWK service personnel must have a Smart Card to have pre-event venue service access.[5]
• Washington DC & Metro Area 8:00 PM - 9:00 PM Keys Day For PWK [6]

None of these are critics. Just like all former followers don't call themselves, "ex-premies", just as all followers in the past probably did not call themselves "Premies", so too, not everyone who is currently a followers calls themselvs or others "Person with Knowledge." But clearly, some do, and so the article should reflect that. Is this a big deal for some reason? -Willmcw 07:19, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it is a big deal that people try to affix labels just to harass them (You are a "premie", you are in a "cult", you are a "paki", you are a "commie", you are "bloody jew". I have been call all these, btw). Anyway, to satisfy your concern (that by the way I don't understand why are you so keen in pursuing), I edited the article to reflect the fact that some students call fellow students "People with Knowledge" or "People that received the techniques of Knowledge". Let us give it a rest now. Thanks. -≈ jossi ≈ 15:09, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for making the edit. Nobody is being harassed, this is just an effort to depict the world the way that it really is. Unfortunately, that is not always the way we would wish it to be. Cheers, -Willmcw 18:49, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)

Do you really believe that? OMG! You are in for a big disappointment, my friend... I don't want to sound philosophical, but let me warn you that there is no such a thing as the way the world really is, only the world that we perceive it to be. If there was such a thing as the world that really is, we wouldn't have wars, disagreements, hate, arguments, divorce, politics, philosophies, religions, etc. etc. etc. and most definitively no need for an encyclopedia based on the principle of NPOV !  :-) ≈ jossi ≈ 20:37, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)

I do not often agree with Jossi, but this time, I think, he is right that this article is redundant. Andries 09:45, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Do you also agree that Past teachings of Prem Rawat is the correct article to redirect it to? -Willmcw 15:56, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

no, that is a revisionist article. Redirect to Prem Rawat would be better. Andries 18:36, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Who are you to judge if an article is revisionistic or not? If you think that the article is not NPOV, please address this issue on its talk page. As for the redirect, I will redirect to Prem Rawat unless there is any objection. ≈ jossi ≈ 21:10, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

Please merge the info over too. Rather than a redirect would it be better as a disambiguation? "Preemie" is the more typical spelling for premature babies, I believe, but "premie" is apparently used as well. Thanks for your contributions, -Willmcw 22:03, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

SmartCard

Smartcard text moved to Elan Vital. ≈ jossi ≈ 02:53, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)