Talk:Chemical substance

Differentiation of substance and body

Substance and body are disjunctive concepts. Since the terms are interrelated, I recommend the following supplement:

Even Aristotle distinguished between substance (substance) and form (body): the substance is the formless, rigid substance, the "underlying", the form (body) its shape. Wood and Marble eg are fabrics, the finished plate or sculpture the shape. The sand castle disintegrates the sand remains. Fabric and form are sides of a concrete individual thing and do not occur independently:

more material term	wood	wood	water	diamond	paper	air	––	rain	glass	iron
more physical term	plate	dowel	beam	crystal	sheet	balloon	electron	areal	glass	atom

Remarks:

• The distinction between body and substance follows those in extensive and intensive quantities (properties).IUPAC, goldbook
• No material without body, no body without material!
• To distinguish between body and substance: bodies can be halved (divided), substances not. So half a piece of chalk is like the whole of chalk. The section is less than the whole.
• With a compound noun is an object (thing) physically and material comprehensively designated, for example: water drops, steel nail, ...

Walmei (talk) 11:34, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Note: pending wp:consensus, I had removed this part from the article, because I think it doesn't really belong. Perhaps in Matter (philosophy). - DVdm (talk) 12:22, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Science

Why element sometimes called pure 2A02:C7F:C297:9A00:ED0E:40FF:76DC:376D (talk) 17:54, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Pure substance

What is pure

substances 2409:4056:191:575B:0:0:2710:A0B1 (talk) 00:34, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Introduction

I have just published some significant edits to the introduction, tagging along with my reasoning here. Broadly, my goals were to improve the readability and understanding here. These included corrections to some inaccurate/misleading information.

• The term "simple substances" is not used in the field of chemistry as a synonym for element, as is stated in the previous version. The reference cited (which I removed) describes a single suggestion made at a conference to change the term "element" to "simple substance."[1]
• Added context with chromatography, and used simpler language to introduce the concept of purity.
• Changed language on phases to encourage understanding that "transitions" do not change the composition of a chemical substance.
• Added context to Chemical reactions with inclusion of inert.
• Used more concise language (and less punctuation) to describe the example on water. Added an example of one of water's properties to support the two part composition/property definition.

Feel free to edit as desired, or commence discussion here. AdmiresCycles (talk) 06:57, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

@AdmiresCycles: Please note that new sections go at the end of talk pages. Your change incorrectly attributes all separations of mixture as occurring via chromatography. You have also given alloys as an example of a chemical substance despite them having variable composition and properties. Also, the lede of an article should reflect the content of the article. Wikipedia encourages bold editing, but I suggest that parts of your revision should be undone. 1.141.198.161 (talk) 11:14, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for these helpful comments, and taking the time to move my comment on this page as well as in talk:Toxicity. I am new to this, but eagerly learning. Thanks for the catch RE:alloys, those are definitely examples of chemical mixtures not a pure substance. I will remove it now, but do we think alloys should be mentioned in the "Substances versus mixtures" section?

Great point with the chromatography error, too. I notice in the "mixtures" section has a general the statement on separations, "they can be separated into the component substances by purely mechanical processes," but maybe this sentence could be improved with links to Chromatography, Distillation, and Evaporation as well? I'll make that edit but others please dissent if you feel otherwise.

Besides moving the separations discussion downward, does anyone have any specific suggestions for how the lede could be more succinct and better reflect the article content? AdmiresCycles (talk) 17:55, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Chemicals are not synonyms for chemical substances

Chemicals are products of industry, have a purpose and declared purity. The name is not an abbreviation of chemical substances nor its synonym.

Chemical substances are hierarchically above chemicals. All chemicals are chemical substances, but only some chemical substances are chemicals.

Whoever merged these two articles is clueless and is stomping on established scientific nomenclature just because some people don't understand the difference and say "all chemicals are bad". Lajoswinkler (talk) 19:40, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable source for your view there? HiLo48 (talk) 09:38, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

In English-speaking countries, through the habitual process of devaluating vocabulary, where usage commonly dictates meaning, distinction has been almost lost for laymen. Recent online change has been very rapid through attempts to fight chemophobia rampant in those countries, by sources that don't care about strict semantics, most notably science activism through comics and memetic material.

In languages and cultures which value semantical precision, such as German, which also possesses a historical authority on science of chemistry and chemical technology, distinction remains strong. Example can be found here: https://www.dwds.de/wb/Chemikalie and in Römpp Lexikon Chemie.

For example, in Croatia and neighbouring countries, which share the cultural circle in regards to natural sciences, the word (kemikalija) is also strictly defined, almost a synonym to reagent. Example can be found in "Mali kemijski leksikon" by Ljubiša Grlić (ISBN 86-349-0292-7):

kemikalije, skupni naziv za sve kemijske proizvode, odnosno za tvari priređene kemijsko-tehnološkim postupcima

(eng.) chemicals, collective term for all chemical products, i.e. substances produced by processes of chemical technology

Lajoswinkler (talk) 01:55, 24 January 2024 (UTC)