Talk:Pommel horse

Proper noun

Why is "pommel horse" being treated as a proper noun? Michael Hardy 01:39 22 May 2003 (UTC)

Cause it is only an apparatus for gymnastics?! :-) Well, I really don't know. Only this, if you look in the regulations for artistic gymnastics (also called as `Code of Points') it is always written that way: `Pommel Horse' or all in caps. anobo 01:46 22 May 2003 (UTC)

male gymnasts?

why is it used exclusively by male gymnasts?

I know, that seems rather strange! Surely women are at least as strong as men. I don't see how an average athletic woman could have so little upper body strength as to not be able to use it :\ --91.105.80.76 (talk) 23:07, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I want to say the reason is summed up by the sarcasm in the above response, I'll translate in a serious tone, the Pommel Horse is a routine exercise that focuses on technique/strength of the upper arms and shoulders. Seems that it also might be an offset to Men not doing the balance beam, biologically its more entertaining to watch female gymnasts do that spectacle, and vice versa with men and the Pommel horse, that's my understanding.EliteArcher88 (talk) 16:35, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Inaccurate article

This article on Pommel Horse is a decent start, but (as a National Judge and NCAA / National competitor) it is highly inaccurate, too colloquial, and attempts to be specific on certain tricks to the exclusion of others. For example:

- The article refers to "If the gymnast is half way back to his starting position then this is called a Moore" Actually, this description could refer to several similar tricks. "Moore" is colloquial and Western-biased; the trick's international, official name is a "Czechkehre." The article's original description could also refer to a 180 Russian on two pommels, a Double Swiss, a Bailie, a Direct Stockli A, Direct Stockli B, or a Back Moore. (Descriptions need to be more specific.)

- This article makes no reference to general difficulty values, the new scoring system, or the fact that combined elements no longer receive connection bonus.

  Difficulty:
   All skills listed in Code of Points and range from "A" (lowest difficulty) to "F" (highest difficulty).
     A = 0.1
     B = 0.2
     C = 0.3
     D = 0.4
     E = 0.5
     F = 0.6

  The new scoring system:
    A-score (difficulty) is open-ended: top 9 skills + dismount (no more than 4 from any single skill category) + 0.5 for each   
    category fulfilled by any valued skill except dismount category ("D" dismount required for full 0.5 value, "C" dismount = 0.3,     
    "B" or "A" = 0.0)
  PLUS
    B-score (execution / presentation): starts from a 10.0 for 7 or more skills, 6.0 for 6, 5.0 for 5, etc.
    Deductions are taken for a variety of execution errors: form breaks (atypical separation of legs, bent knees, flexed toes,    
    etc.), technical deviations from the Code of Points (finishing 30 degrees short of a required handstand, skewing of the body 
    while traveling, rhythm breaks, using strength on a swing skill and vice versa, etc.), landing errors (taking a step or a   
    hop, uncontrolled landing shown by excessive arm swing, landing with one's chest too far down, etc.), and falls onto or off of 
    the apparatus. Deductions are listed specifically to the degree of the error: a small deduction (0.1), a medium deduction (0.3), 
    a large deduction (0.5), and a fall (0.8). The deductions are summed and subtracted from the starting B-score (usually a 10.0).
  EQUALS 
    Final score

  For example: 
    Difficulty values:  D  D   D   B   B   C   C   A   C   D
    Categories:         I  IV  II  III II  IV  I   I   IV  V
    
        4 D = 1.6
        3 C = 0.9
        2 B = 0.4
        1 A = 0.1
            = 3.0
            + 2.5 for all categories fulfilled
            = 5.5 A-score

        If there were 0.9 in deductions, the B-score would be a 9.1. Adding together the A-score and B-score nets the Final Score, 
        in this case a 14.6 (5.5 + 9.1).

- The description of a spindle is inaccurate. It is not a shift of one's body; it is circling or flairing of one's legs in one direction while rotating one's body counter to the direction of the swing.

- Flair is not spelled "flare," unless you're talking about the kind they keep for roadside, boat, and military emergencies. (It was invented by Kurt Thomas, and is actually called a Thomas Flair.)

- The article does not explain the distinction between cross and side support. Cross support (loosely) means your body is facing directly towards or directly away from the length of the pommel horse while circling / flairing. Side support (loosely) means your body is facing perpendicular to the length of the pommel horse.

- "This is due to the fact that horse routines are done from the shoulders in a leaning motion and that no moves except the handstand need to be held unlike other events." Handstands are not held on pommel horse; doing so incurs a medium to large deduction. Gymnasts should continue the movement of the circles or flairs through the handstand and through to the dismount, travel, or lowering back down to circles or flairs without breaking rhythm (either by slowing or speeding up excessively or stopping).

- A jump off of the horse is not a listed dismount in the Code of Points, nor does any such dismount derive from a "jump" off the pommel horse. A loop dismount off of the pommel horse is called a "Schwabenflank" and can be preceded by Russians to increase the difficulty of the dismount. A gymnast need not pirouette in a handstand dismount; it may simply cross the body of the pommel horse, pirouette and cross the body of the horse, travel without crossing the body of the horse, or travel and pirouette without crossing the body of the horse (Kolyvanov).

This is all I have time for tonight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devingymnast (talk • contribs) 04:58, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

History?

Knowing very little about gymnastics, I found this to be an interesting article. However, I was surprised that there is no discussion of the history of the pommel horse. How did this sport come to be? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.182.19.18 (talk) 20:03, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

You're right. This article could definitely use expansion in this area. There is an interesting link, however, in the External links section: History of Pommel horse. -- œ^™ 03:42, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

It might be useful to look at the article Equestrian vaulting. Kortoso (talk) 03:46, 17 February 2019 (UTC)