Talk:Celtic Frost

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CELTIC FROST NEWS TOM WARRIOR HAS LEFT THE BAND! POSTED ON OFFICIAL WEBSITE,TOMS BLOG AND BLABBERMOUTH —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.81.52.25 (talk) 21:22, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Cold Lake Collectable Source

While it may be rarer than usual, linking to amazon which prices it £40.00+ is misleading as LPs can be picked up on ebay for less than £5. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.233.235.4 (talk) 23:11, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Copyright

I *do* hold the copyright to the text posted. However, if this is not acceptable to you, I will write an entirely new text for the page.

That can be acceptable to us -- but we need some assurances that (a) you are the copyright holder and (b) you understand what it means to release that content under the GFDL. I hope you understand, we're not trying to be difficult! We're trying to make sure that Wikipedia doesn't violate people's legitimate copyrights. Are you willing to offer this content under the GFDL? Jwrosenzweig 23:29, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Celtic Frost is not Black Metal

While they had a seminal influence on Black Metal, CF is not really a Black Metal band. What is closer to the truth is that CF is uncategorizable, but if pressed their sound is something akin to progressive baroque death metal. As evidence for the non-BM tag, Warrior himself has said this in an audio interview with Chris Tetley that is widely available on picture disc and bootleg. Ixion75 03:43, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

I do agree with this, labeling them as heavy metal would do them much better justice. Avador 17:16, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Thats bullshit. Celtic Frost are by no means heavy metal. yeah because they sound so much like Grim Reaper and Iron Maiden. get real. They are first wave of black metal with thrash metal elements. Stop changing their genre to Heavy metal. Thats stupid —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.81.63.170 (talk) 23:01, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually, Mr. Anonymous a.k.a. 72.81.63.170, you're wrong. What you're considering as "heavy metal" is the so-called New Wave of British Heavy Metal. Heavy metal music, on the other hand, encompasses all it's subgenres. Musicaindustrial (talk) 15:14, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

So do we basically agree that we should remove Black Metal from their tag? Or has that changed with the more Black-style of the most recent album? Personally I am inclined to allow it stay. Atech 16:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

This isnt exactly correct, they are early black metal/thrash, but heavy is to general. The genre definitions on this site are all over the place, Venom is early black metal yet Celtic Frost is Heavy metal (lumping them in with both Judas Priest and Rainbow) and Hellhammer is simply "extreme metal"? 139.57.206.54 06:40, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

It should be common knowledge that at this point that Venom only gets labeled black metal because a) they coined the term and b) they had usually poor production on most their releases, a trait that actual black metal would later retain. If Venom is real black metal, then so is Motorhead. Celtic Frost isn't black metal. The overall genre should just be heavy metal since they've done work in thrash, avant garde, and more recently doom metal. Nihilistic Sadogoat (talk) 18:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Celtic Frost is most certainly Black Metal. One of the first wave of black metal bands along with Venom,Bathory,Hellhammer,Mercyful Fate,Sarcofago, and Sabbat.

Just because they do not sound like black metal of today does not mean they are not BM. Music changes, sounds. Celtic Frost is most certainly black metal with thrash elements and I do not believe they should be termed Heavy Metal. Heavy Metal are bands like Ozzy.Judas Priest,iron Maiden,Saxon,Grim Reaper —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.81.63.170 (talk) 15:18, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Just put a section that says they contributed to what black metal is today. as for the genre they are more blackend doom metal today the closest ive heard of old celtic frost is apocolyptic raids from hellhammer(band) Malacath (talk) 20:32, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

It already talks about their influence on extreme metal (death, thrash and black). These days they're more gothic/doom metal than anything else. Their early stuff was just extreme metal and had a similar sound to Venom, Bathory, etc. Most early black metal bands were really thrashy sounding but rawer/dirtier. Hellhammer, Celtic Frost, Bathory, Venom, Mercyful Fate, etc. are all 1st Wave black metal bands. It's hard to desribe their sound and there are some that argue none of them are black metal, that they just influenced black metal a great deal. W/e. They're black metal to me. Even if it sounds way more thrashy than later black metal. It just has that "early" sound. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 20:40, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I put first wave of black metal as one of their genres.is that alright? theshaz23

Thrash Metal?

While Black metal really seems debatable, I just really do not see Thrash in any of the works of CF, I think it might be a good move to remove this tag from the band. Atechi 21.46 23 June 2006

"Vanity nemesis" is thrash

Celtic Frost is easily debatably the definers of thrash sound Cannibaltom 04:25, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

New Logo

Folks...I just visited the official site. CF has a new logo...should we still be using the old one here?

It's not a new logo, it's just a second logo. It has been used since Morbid Tales (maybe even earlier). --Kebabi 07:16, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Influenced bands

I removed Creed from the list of bands influenced by Celtic Frost... at best the idea is laughable.

Whole thing should be deleted

Completely biased, Hides true facts and makes out the band does alot more than it really does. Needs a good cleaning up and re-write. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zaardon (talk • contribs) 07:08, 26 January 2007 (UTC).

GENRE!

as far as the bio, i agree it should be cleaned up. i changed the genre to what is listed under their page on Metal Archives. it seems to be the most accurate and unbiasesed assesment of the band over the years. hope you appreciate it. --Atonefornothing

yes and metal archives has them as Black thrash metal and thats what they should be termed on here. not heavy metal. they are NOT heavy metal. Iron maiden is heavy metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.81.95.102 (talk) 16:24, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Heavy metal could be also a generic term. Heavy metal could be also Slayer, Morbid Angel, Slipknot, W.A.S.P., Helloween, not only Iron Maiden. Since it isn't easy to define the band genre and also to avoid overfilling the infobox, it's better to leave "heavy metal (see below)", I repeat, because their genre is topic of debate. P.S. Metal-archives is a fansite that invents fake genres (Have you ever heard "metallic hard rock" or "melodic thrash metal"?). --Born Again 83 (talk) 19:08, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you mostly, but melodic thrash metal is a real genre. Megadeth and early Metallica are part of the genre as opposed to more raw/brutal thrash like Kreator or Destruction. But the term is not as widely used as melodic death metal, etc. I think MA does mostly get genres right, but they do invent a lot of fake genres. I think it's easy to know what Celtic Frost is if you listen to their music, though. They started out as extreme metal with a mix of thrash and black. Over time they've changed to a few different genres. Now they're just gothic metal pretty much, but bad (in my opinion). Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 23:44, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Stop changing it back to heavy metal. They are not heavy metal. Leave it the way it is becuase that is what they are . Black thrash metal. Call CF heavy metal might as well say Mortician is pop metal then —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.81.95.102 (talk) 23:54, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

For the last time they are NOT heavy metal.And shitknot is not even metal. Thats hard rock. Leave it at Black thrash /heavy metal if anything —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.81.95.102 (talk) 23:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia isn't based on personal opinions, it is based on suorces. Those in group page have different views among themselves, so it's better to leave everything as it is. Do you understand, now? P.S. Among those nu metal band, Slipknot is the only group to have pure metal influences. They are not shit like Limp Bizkit or Linkin Park. --Born Again 83 (talk) 14:00, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Firstly, there clearly is some misunderstanding. By saying heavy metal we mean heavy metal in general. HM can apply to Black Sabbath but also to Mayhem, please read the heavy metal music article and you'll see the scope of the article goes beyond Iron Maiden and Black Sabbath. We don't think Celtic Frost is traditional HM like Iron Maiden. Secondly, the infobox template guidelines state we should aim for generality in the genre section. I'm not a big fan of this guideline but in case of genre disputes I think aiming for generality is the way to go. (see examples Meshuggah, Queen (band), Nevermore, Cradle of Filth). Cheers. Kameejl ^(Talk) 14:43, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

References

CF is not doom

sorry guys but what hell from Celtic Frost is being doom metal or even close? IMO definately not single even has nothing commonality nor the even elements what has to being definiable to as doom metal.

And you've also good to notice that they even don't have an actual entries in doom-meta.com. And Warrior and guys does'nt even call themselves as being doom metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.114.156.250 (talk) 10:37, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Monotheist is a doom metal album. Also, it doesn't matter what the band says about their own music, that's now how you classify stuff. If Michael Bolton were to insist that his music is Nazi punk, that would not make it so. A real example would be Stratovarius calling their music "heavy rock" and rejecting the metal label. Their music is still metal whether they like it or not. Nihilistic Sadogoat (talk) 18:45, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

BTW, I too would say Stratovarius is not metal :P. A song like Mother Gaia can't possibly have been created by a metal band. Kameejl ^(Talk) 08:37, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Monotheist is Black thrash doom metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.81.47.113 (talk) 01:38, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Wow you just don't give up. I don't know how some of you dumbasses manage to breathe. Anyways...Monotheist is an almost purely doom/ gothic metal album. They only started playing doom recently, though. They haven't played black/ thrash for a long time. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 19:09, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

No you are the dumbass. I can go with Monotheist being doom metal, but it is in no way GOTH Metal you dumb shit. Its Blackened Thrash (listen to progeny it sounds like Hellhammer) with Doom metal influenced. You listen to KoRn anyways so you wouldnt know shit on metal.

ARE YOU SERIOUS??? I don't like Korn you retard (nor would I listen to them)!! Where the hell did you get an idea like that?? I've never said that! Have you even seen my user page? I hate nu metal and metalcore, idiot! Not to mention I already know I know a million times more than you about metal. Oh yeah, and let me remind you of WP:CIVIL, ya fag. Now fuck off. We ain't changing the Celtic Frost article for you. How do you even manage to breathe, you dipshit? Rhetorical question, of course. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 18:58, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Im a girl shit ass. Therefore I cant be a fag. LMAO yeah right you just think you know more than me about metal. Youre just mad becuase I kept changing Celtic Frosts genre. Got a wittle temper tantrum all over that. Awww. I got you mixed up with Born Again. Born agains the one that likes Korn. But either way both are you pretty homosexual.

OH NO!!! It's a girl!!! I'm so sorry!!! Give me a break. I don't care if your a half-deer-mouse-hermaphrodite thing, it doesn't change how wrong you are or that you act like a 'tard. I'm pretty sure I do know more than you as far as metal goes. You pissed off quite a few people with your antics in changing those genres. And as far as I'm concerned you had the temper. You got all bent out of shape and kept changing the genres (only to be reverted and told that you were a n00b) and started insulting people on talk pages. Also, you're wrong about Born Again as well. He doesn't like Korn (I think) and that was only someone posting on his talk page saying they liked Korn, not him. I don't care what you think my sexual orientation is, idiot, I could care less about your opinion. Stop blathering on like a total dumbass. Any true fan of black metal would have slapped you by now (or at the very least told you to stop before further making yourself seem stupid). I suggest some metal training (not from a n00b) from someone who knows their metal. In all seriousness, though, and all insults aside, I have no hard feelings against you (why would I?) but you are acting like a bitch. Cheers! Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 19:54, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

No YOU are the idiot.You have your head to far up your asshole. Celtic Frost is black Metal in some form whether you think it is or not. They were one of the first waves besides Bathory and Sarcofago. Which do not sound like black metal at all in any form. Guess why? it was the 80s!! Of course Celtic Frost wont sound like Black Metal compared to now a days Bm. Styles change idiot. Pull your head out of your ass. Monotheist is a Black Thrash album, and maybe some doom metal in it. Pfft metal training. Gauranteed I know more black metal than your = ass does. You probably think COF and Satyricon and Dimmu Borgir are the Kvlt black metal. Listen to Some Tenebrae Semitarius or some Ulfehonir fag boy. P.S. Any person that calls Celtic Frost 'heavy metal' is the ultimate idiot. I dont care if heavy metal applies to all metal genres. Celtic Frost is NOT heavy metal. If anything call it thrash metal. I think Ill go back and change the genre just to piss your ass off.

First of all, wikipedia is not based on personal opinions! So it seems you have got memory problems? HEAVY METAL COULD BE ALSO A GENERIC TERM! Celtic Frost have changed so many genres over the years, it's better to leave only "heavy metal (see below)". What do you think about this: "Celtic Frost is a thrash/black/death/doom/glam/gothic band", It sounds great! Continue to change the genre but I think you will be blocked for a long time or forever! Cheers! --Born Again 83 (talk) 20:53, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Fine be a shithead about it. Celtic Frost is probably splitting up anyways due to Tom leaving the band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.81.52.25 (talk) 21:24, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I wanna respond to your still childish ways. Celtic Frost is not black metal in any form any more. Just because they once were doesn't mean they can't change styles. Like, say, Bathory. And Bathory and Sarcofago's early stuff sounds like black metal to me, so w/e. It might sound different than the 2nd Wave but as you pointed out it's still black metal. You said it yourself, "Styles change." I agree. You're the one who seems to have your head so far up your ass you don't know what way is up or down. You write like a child and you keep coming back and changing the page only to be reverted. Thick-headed much? As I said, I already know that I know more about black metal than you. For your info I don't like CoF or DB and they are not even black metal in the least, so stfu. Early Satyricon ain't bad, though, but it's hardly the "kvltest." You won't piss me of by changing the genres, lmao. You have to do the work, all it takes is for me to click one little button to change it back, lmao. Go listen to some Impiety or Moonshine, fool. Personal favorites of mine would be Desaster and Sigh, but both those bands are more well known. Suck it down. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 21:54, 9 April 2008 (UTC).

Whatever.Monotheist does have black metal elements in there asshole. Your just probably some elitist fuck who thinks otherwise. I already know Impiety and Moonshine. FYI Tom isnt in celtic Frost anymore. So stop changing it back to say he is in there, whoever changed it.RIP!

Lol! I don't know whether to feel honored or what. First, I was someone who didn't know shit about black metal (and possibly a poser) and now I'm called an elitist. Well, that's almost honorable as elitists at least know their shit. But I'm not an elitist (as they are total dicks). That's kinda cute, though...how you changed from one extreme to another. And no, I'm not being sarcastic. That's cool that you know Moonshine and Impiety. Them's are good bands! At the very least they are both intriguing as neither play "pure" black metal. *winks* Will do! Oh, and I never said Monotheist didn't have black metal elements in it, but it's still doom more than anything else. If you want real black/doom listen to Argentum! I'm definitely interested in your sudden switch of how you talked to me, though. It was as if you suddenly had more respect for me in your latest comment...less insults, less of an arguement, slightly more civil, etc. Was it because I mentioned Moonshine and Impiety? It seems how I suddenyl garnered more respect from you and it could only have been because I mentioned those bands. A black metal fan would only suddenly show more respect for somebody (when having an arguement over music) if that other bm fan suddenly mentioned some rarer piece of knowledge (like a lesser known band, as I did). Anyways, I've found our "talks" interesting enough. I do feel a bit honored by the "elitist" comment even if it may have stung a bit (as I said, I'm not that much of an asshole). Hope you continue to bring more useful edits to wikipedia about metal (or w/e else). Cheers! TTYL, hopefully. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 22:50, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I also noticed something else interesting. The ip address you are using (at least the latest one) only has Celtic Frost edits (except one edit to a talk page), but it says two years ago your ip address made two edits to mouse concerning Mickey Mouse. Very cute. So that was either your edits or someone else who used the computer you're on two years ago made them. Anyways, on another subject, I think Celtic Frost should split. They shouldn't continue without Tom, as it is not CF without Tom. He is CF. But it seems they plan to continue right along, even though only one of them is still an original member. Also, I know metal-archives (Encyclopaedia Metallum) isn't always right as far as genres are concerned (although they are usually right on everything and still are the most comprehensive metal band site out there, having way more bands than any other site) but I thought you might like to know what they label Celtic Frost. They call their genre, "Thrash/Death/Black Metal (early), Avant-Garde (late 80s), Glam (Cold Lake) Gothic/Doom (now)" http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=269 Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 23:04, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmm. probably my sisters edited that mouse thing. I have two of them (computers). Yeah well the reason why I stopped insulting you is because you weren't what i expected (like you said). its kind of hard to know whos fake and whos not fake over the internet.I just get really opinionated over my favorite bands. I talked to Tom and asked him if he really wanted to leave, but he didnt answer me. I hope he will reconsider. I also have an account on here but I dont sign in because i forgot the passwoird —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.145.196.234 (talk) 14:37, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Is that really you? I get confused what with all the different IP addresses. I can't tell if I'm just talking to one person or a few different ones. Anyways, in response to your comment: Ah, I see. Well, yes, it's not always good to rush to judgements. Even though this is wikipedia there are still plenty of "true" metal fans on it I've come to learn. Yes, the internet is deceptive. Don't worry, I can get opinionated like that as well*smiles*. It'll be interesting to see what Tom does. You should make another account. Otherwise people (like myself) will not know how to reach you or talk to you because of all the different IP addresses. Hence the reason I'm still posting my comments on this talk page. I would go to your talk page, but I'm not sure if you will be on it since your IP address keeps changing. Look forward to talking to you more. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$

Ok well I made a new account. of course I have no idea how to add those things to it, like members of something and stuff. But ill figure it out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TragicSerenades (talk • contribs) 02:59, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to ask me about anything you need to know as far as wikipedia goes and I'll probably be able to assist you. It'll be my pleasure to help. Also feel free to converse with me about anything (such as music or bands, as I enjoyed our conversations on this talk page). If you would like to communicate with me, go ahead and respond on your talk page (I will put it on my watchlist), or you can click on my name and go to my user page/talk page (if you click on the grey Odin next to my name that will take you directly to my talk page). If/when you do choose to talk to anyone just remember to sign after your comment with the four tildas, ~~~~, so people can see your name and more easily know who they are talking to. Good luck. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 21:02, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

.

Ok Sounds good :) Im not to familiar with Wikipedia that well. I prefer metal-archives haha. TragicSerenades (talk) 14:49, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Alright, and as I said you can respond on your talk page if you like. I'll know when you do. Yeah, metal-archives is alright, but it's not the most accurate site in some aspects. Well, ttyl! Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 23:00, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

HEHE whats with the sudden change of Celtic Frosts genre :p TragicSerenades (talk) 21:55, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

I did that =). Read your talk page. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 18:23, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

MDB and Katatonia

I removed these acts from the influenced arstist. They never had said that they had influenced by Celtic Frost. I added Cradle of Filth and HIM instead of them. Any comments? Etos 16:43, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Those bands suck and take heavy criticism from Celtic Frost fans and metal fans in general. You only make CF look bad. MDB and Katatonia are good though, so it's a shame. Nihilistic Sadogoat (talk) 18:47, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Bootlegs

I removed all of the bootlegs from the page (as bootlegs are not notable or encyclopedic pretty much by definition) barring the two that inexplicably have their own articles, which I have nominated for deletion. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 19:40, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Split-Up

The band has NOT been officially split up YET, like someone wrote. Thomas Gabriel Fischer officially left the band, yes, but nobody has confirmed that they had split up yet. Honestly I expect that to come, but it shouldn't be written here if that hasn't happened yet. Cancelling the tour is no proof for a split. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.176.146.92 (talk) 08:40, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

You're right. Some IP snuck it in. I removed it, thanks. Cheers! Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 20:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Well Tom Gabriel Fischer -is- Celtic Frost, and he says it is done. Just because the other two idiots say it isn't broken up mean nothing. Really, I don't know why Tom doesn't just run the band as his own dictatorship and throw out the idiot troublemaker drummer who broke up the band and isn't even an original member. If Martin doesn't like it, get rid of him too! But I guess it's basically the same since Tom has a new band now with Reed St. Mark, previous CF drummer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.5.188.169 (talk) 23:54, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

DUH

No mention of Reign Of Steel bootleg? Pfft. 68.167.161.182 (talk) 02:12, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

lol HistorianFromSyracuse (talk) 08:46, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Genre

In this section there were sources about their genre dispute. Where the hell are they now??? --Born Again 83 (talk) 19:18, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Nokturnal Mortum is an influence?

NM is a NSBM, and CF isn't that, and Where is that of NM?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.18.50.64 (talk) 13:20, 14 October 2008 (UTC) 

Pronunciation

What's the correct pronunciation of the band's name, with [s] or with [k]? I mean 'c' in "celtic". 194.50.125.13 (talk) 02:13, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

[s]. 82.181.195.123 (talk) 18:54, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Only if you’re from Bawston HistorianFromSyracuse (talk) 08:47, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Influence Section

Is the inclusion of the tribute album "In Memory of Celtic Frost" relevent at all ? Seems akward at best. zubrowka74 20:03, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Erol Unala

'Live members: (...) Erol Unala – rhythm guitar (2001–2006)'? I think Erol Unala played on 2000's Celtic Frost's demo and album so he wasn't only a live member. I don't even think he's ever played any concert with CF - he did that only in studio. And when exactly did Unala leave the band? There's nothing about it in the 'Reunion (2001-2008)' section. I think he did that shortly before "Monotheist's" release. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.27.79.37 (talk) 13:01, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Glam metal? Extreme metal?

Should the info box list their genre as "Extreme metal" if they have played genres other than extreme metal? Glam metal is definitely not extreme — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.107.16.119 (talk) 21:18, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

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Extreme metal in the infobox instead of a myriad of sub-genres

The title is pretty self-explanatory on its own. But I also wanted to emphasize on the fact that an editor reverted my edit when I put a general "extreme metal" in the infobox, claiming that doom metal "isn't extreme" and referencing another band having the genre even though that's pretty much unrelated to this case. I mean, CF played a wide variety of metal sub-genres and all of them were extreme (except for that one album on which they played glam metal, maybe), but my point is, we should really just put one genre on the infobox instead of putting a thousand, because not only would that look unprofessional, but it'd also undermine the point of "extreme metal" existing as a page here in WP. I'd really appreciate people's opinions regarding this matter.-Thräshstalker 17:34, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

I agree with this sentiment. Celtic Frost is an understandingly difficult artistic vehicle to describe. Extreme metal is a good enough descriptor and where it fails, one can say “a variety of genres” which is not untrue. I think the case for being succinct instead of listing 20 different genres makes itself. HistorianFromSyracuse (talk) 08:42, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Suggestion: Merge the last two sections under “History”

I’m using mobile and don‘t wanna do it.

RIP Celtic Frost HistorianFromSyracuse (talk) 08:38, 13 March 2023 (UTC)