Talk:Freising manuscripts

To Primož

Nice work Primož. Just two questions. How should English people now call Brižinski spomeniki. In "semi-original" (Brižinski spomeniki) or in English (Freising manuscipts)?

We should also explain why are they called "Brižinski" in Slovene. You can cut a piece from the article **Slovene Language** about this and put it right here. Best regard and (živjo) -- XJamRastafire 08:14 Jul 26, 2002 (PDT)

Manuscripts or manuscripts

Which of the names is more appropriate? Uppercase or lowercase? See also Voynich manuscript for a similar discussion. --Eleassar ^{my talk} 10:39, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I've discussed the issue with Doremo. We've agreed to keep the lowercase.[1] --Eleassar ^{my talk} 14:14, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Reference 2

The English version of the article has a reference to:
A. V. Isačenko, Jazyk a pôvod frizinských pamiatok (The language and origin of the Freising manuscripts), Bratislava 1943
According to this reference the language "might not be Slovene". I think that this should be removed as there is no doubt the language is Slovenian. I don't even see who has added this note. You have thousands statements that the language is Slovene and one statement, that says this might not "necessarily" be true. The book was published in an occupied territory during WWII, when Germans were trying everything to break patriotism of nations like Slovenian, denying their culture, language, history,... I don't think a reference like that should be included in Wiki, we don't even know, what exactly is written in that book.

Obviously people DO follow the article and they are reverting changes the minute they are done. But they are not interested in discussing why, who, were,... I don't like that. I will try one more time. The link that the person who reverted my changes, gave is not mentioning claims in the article, that this is not Slovenian language. The book is said to be "secondary literature", that's all. The fact is, that the book WAS written during WWII on occupied territory. This is relevant in my opinion as it's still the only source out of several hundreds, that claims this to not be Slovenian language. In that time there were also books written, that were claiming that Slovenians as the nation don't exist. And I will say one more time, that the book might not even mention that, maybe that's an original research, article writer's own understanding of the book? I'm not saying it is, but there is always a possibility.

I realize that Wikipedia is supposed to have all sort of written (published) opinions, but there is a line. If I write a book and say the language is Chinese, would this come to Wiki? Also in Slavic peoples article, I don't see any mentioning of "According to Hitler's Mein Kampf, these people are inferior". So there is a line when it comes to quoting different sources, relevant or less relevant. --JTrdi 12:55, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Well then in which language? What are the hypothesis according that book? --Jonson22 20:35, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I have no idea what is the hypothesis in that book. --JTrdi 21:58, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

• Actually it was written in nowadays extinct Pannonian dialect, very close (or maybe identical, who'd know?) to some Slovenian dialects of the time. Slovenian territory is notoriously dialectally diversified even today. Claims that this was written in WWII are just nonsense.. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 12:10, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Input requested

Please see Category talk:Earliest known manuscripts by language. Enaidmawr (talk) 01:19, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Date discrepancy

According to the main article, the manuscripts were written "between 972 and 1093, most likely before 1000".
According to the Slovene language article, that date is "between 972 and 1093, most likely in the later years of the range".
Something is wrong here. - Bobber0001 (talk) 21:12, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Accoruding to Lunt's grammar of OCS, p. 16, it can be dated between 998 and 1027. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 22:18, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

The Freising manuscripts are usually dated between 972 and 1039. SAZU, NUK According to the Slovenian literary historian sl:Matija Ogrin: "Konec 10. stoletja, po letu 972. BS II in III sta nastala najverjetneje še pred letom 1000, najpozneje pa do 1022 ali 1023. BS I je verjetno najstarejši, a je mogel biti zapisan še najpozneje do leta 1039. Časovni razpon možnega nastanka je torej med 972 in 1039." meaning "in the late 10th century, after the year 972. BS II and III were most probably produced already before 1000, in any case not later than 1022 or 1023, BS I is most probably the oldest, but could be written till 1039. The time span of the possible origin is therefore between 972 and 1039." That's for the manuscripts themselves. The texts are even older. They were probably created till the end of the 8th century.[2] --Eleassar ^{my talk} 16:00, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Were there any radio carbon dating made with C14? It is highly probable that Freising Manuscripts are a fake... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.198.132.112 (talk • contribs) 19:55, 28 December 2011‎

I think they have not been radiocarbon dated yet. There were some attempts to prove that the dating to the late 10th or the early 11th century was incorrect, but have been shown to be ungrounded.[3] --Eleassar ^{my talk} 08:37, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Text

i azze sza glagolo
z lodiv . i vzem igo
delom . i vzem iego
loþocam . tó se uve-
rivu iz bog vze mo
gocki . izi iega zin .
izi zvueti duch. data
tri imena edin bog
gozpod zvueti . 
ise zouri nebo . ls z
emlo . to se iz co ie-
ga miloszti .

from thougth0-light-flash1 in words
from lodiv2 . and in all his
dids. and all his 
goodnes3 . that for is 'confi-rmed faith'
that god all mi-ghty4 .
and that his zin (sin syn son? or zen).
and that holly spirit. data5 for
three names . odin6 god
lord /of universe/of life/of light.7
and here is light of dawn on skay .
glowing over our land .
this all is from his love to us.
 

addeum 0-7: <-- cuted 216a2488ded1fac0e501b0716bcf7f2a /home/lea/bibilioteka/tb-jezyki/fm-notes -->

TB cc nc 10:18, 14 September 2019 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.90.196.227 (talk)