Talk:Elfquest

Series

If time ever permits I'd like to do a listing of maor Elfquest series and graphic novel collections.

Given the length and complexity of the series it might also be useful to include separate J. R. R. Tolkien-style articles for people, places and things. That could end up being a big project. Anyone game? Lee M 03:21, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

OK, I've added a list of character names. There are lots of them and they all have fascinating histories, why not. Anyone care to start writing the articles? Lee M 02:18, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Character names are now at List of characters in Elfquest.

That is quite an extensive list! I changed the place where we have included the link for your list. It is now listed in section 2.1 instead of at the bottom of the page. to the underlaying unity of all life so that the voice of intuition may guide us closer to our common keeper (talk) 06:06, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

copyright

I found that Warp Graphics take their IP seriously, a bit more seriously than most other companies. As an example, there was mention that they could not licence out Elfquest for computer games, so don't even bother asking. Why is this? How can so many other companies use their own property, and licence others to do so without any trouble, and without losing their rights, while Elfquest / Warp Graphics only seem to be able to keep it all in the family? Just curious... sheridan 23:54, 2005 Mar 24 (UTC)

EQ was one of the first independent, creator-owned titles back in the late '70s, and it was very much a mom-and-pop operation as opposed to the majority of comic titles which were corporate-owned. I'm assuming that's why Warp, or specifically Richard Pini, wants to keep such a tight rein on any merchandising or adaptations. Lee M 03:41, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Richard Pini may have said said they "could not", but what he meant was "_would_ not". If his previous claims about diluting and/or losing their IP rights by doing so were valid, than every other copyright holder who has authorized computer game adaptations is screwed. Chaotic nipple 23:02, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

The truth is a lot simpler. As long as Elfquest has existed, it's been our dream to license a film adaptation of some sort. It's pretty much a given in the entertainment business that any major entity that options/produces a movie based on a property, will want all ancillary rights in that property as well - merchandise, games, publishing, etc. Were we to grant the rights for, say, a computer game, to a small company and then get a nibble from a major studio, we'd have to tell the big guys we could not offer them the complete package of rights. And that could very well bollix the deal. We've never been worried about losing our IP rights, but dilution - in the eyes of a prospective licensee - has been a valid concern. Richardpini 00:26, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

incest

I would object to the incest claim. Although I haven't kept up with the comics in recent years....I don't ever remember Leetah bedding Suntop or the like.

I do recall some incest, perhaps it should be clarified that it is not a huge part of the "current" culture of the comics as far as the first two tribes are concerned.

Given that the Sun Folk had an initial population of 5 individuals, one of whom was Savah's mother, another of whom was her uncle, I think we can safely infer that there was a lot of inbreeding going on. Come to think of it, I think Savah and her uncle were recognized. Chaotic nipple 21:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the distinction has to be made between inbreeding and incest. Incest implies sexual contact between parent-child, siblings, and the like. Many cultures have allowed first cousins to marry and most allow second cousins to. Elfquest is very much a story of different cultures--different from human and different from elf tribe to elf tribe. There's also the matter of Recognition-that the elves are only fertile in that mental/telepathic state, which they cannot control, and which makes sure their children get the best that the parents have to offer. Simply saying the story features elements of incest (which is does) ignores the fact that the elves aren't human and that that--a portrayal of an alien species that is truely alien in some ways--is one of the appeals of the series.

Perhaps the title of the section should be changed, to perhaps INBREEDING or Elfquest genetics, or something less harsh. The word Incest has negative ramifications in society today. Inbreeding is closer to the truth, especially after the first couple of generations. After all, until recently, the royal families of Europe are the product of excessive INBREEDING, with rare birth defects and deseases popping up. The Royals are human, and evles are, well, elves. More flexible DNA perhaps? Trekkiexb5 21:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I've reworked the sexuality part to read:

"The attitude of the elves towards sex differs greatly from that of human cultures because of their biological differences. Intercourse for the elves isn't an act of reproduction--that only occurs in a magical state called 'Recognition', which guarantees the best genetic combination of what’s available and is beyond the elves’ conscious control. Some elves take more than one lifemate or lovemate, and having sex with someone besides your lifemate or lovemate is acceptable, though not something that would happen all the time. Sexuality and nudity among the elves are seen as natural. To survive and multiply despite their low numbers, both the elves and the trolls have had to sometimes breed with close relatives. The troll Picknose and his mate Oddbit founded their own endogamous kingdom by themselves, causing their children to breed with each other and result in a new society of trolls. According to the creators of Elfquest, Wendy and Richard Pini, all the Elfquest elves are omnisexual and a lack well-defined concept of inbreeding, because of their very long lifespans and because Recognition makes it irrelivant to them. While the story has elements of implied incest, it, and the elves overall attitudes toward sex, is used to illustrate the fact that the elves aren't human and that--a portrayal of an alien species that is truely alien in some ways--is one of the appeals of the series."

Most human societies allow first cousins to marry each other. The Tuaregs allows women to marry a maternal uncle and men a paternal aunt. I think it is because they don't understand that bloodlines are independent of gender. Personally I would not consider sex between first cousins to be incest unless they are double first cousins or children of identical twins. Humans may well suffer the effects of inbreeding more easily than other mammals. In that case it would be because we already have some degree of inbreeding. The whole present-day humanity descend from only a few thousands of people which lived at the beginning of the last Ice Age. It would also explain why we have a weaker immune system than most other mammals.

The sexuality and reproduction of the elves does not really function like that of humans. Recognition virtually always lead to a child (or children) provided it is consummated. The elves are able to reproduce outside Recognition as well but then their reproduction rate is very low. The fact that all elves are bisexual probably contributes to this. The Wolfriders and Sun People appear to reproduce mainly trough Recognition. The Gliders did not manage to reproduce at all for very long – probably several millennia. A visiting Wolfrider named Skywise eventually finds out why: if their number had grown any further they would had outstripped their resources. Since pure-blood elves does not age no-one of them had died during all this time. Consequentially, there where no new births either. The first Glider who manage to reproduce again is Tyldak who acquires Recognition with the Wolfrider Dewshine. The Go-Backs reproduce mainly outside Recognition. No-one of them has experienced Recognition for so long that when Rayek mentions it to their leader Khavi it takes a moment until she remembers what the expression means. The tradition of orgies before battles – when all the adults have sexual intercourse – was probably started in an effort to maximise their birth rate. Apparently, it worked, when the Wolfriders first met them they where at least 49 people (43 adults and at least six children). This includes the two immigrants Rayek and Ekuar. For comparison, the Wolfriders that reached Sorrow's End where only 17 people (13 adults and four children). If the Wolfrider wolves are sentient and telepathic (I don't know if this is canon) they should be considered people as well. Two of them died from hardship during the way though the desert while 13 or 14 survived to reach Sorrow's End.

About incest, it would not surprise me if the elves avoided sexual intercourse with close relatives unless it is their only chance to reproduce. In that case they have no clear definition of who is a “close relative”. Anyway, they only allows consensual sex. The existence of healers probably also contributes to avoiding the effects of inbreeding. These can cure almost all diseases, save the mortally wounded, and even reshape living bodies. However, such changes are not hereditary. Tyldak’s body has been heavily modified to make him look like a mix of a bat and pterosaur trough still with an elf-like face and a roomy enough braincase. Yet his son with Dewshine is a normal-locking elf. He instead bears some resemblance to his father as he looked before modification. Your ideas of incest may be tainted by some highlighted trials in the 1990ies when parents where accused for having sex with their underage children. These children where more likely victims of a degenerate species of psychoanalysis that “explains” all mental problems as the result of sexual abuse. The therapists in question may have sworn on their “scientific honour” but I don’t consider theirs more valuable than that of Trofim Lysenko.

The elves may have more flexible genes or at least a higher mutation rate than humans. There are significant differences in physical appearance between the different elf tribes despite the relatively few generations since the time of divergence. The Gliders have no skin pigmentation comparable to that of humans. If they have any skin pigmentation at all it is probably white since they appear pale even when they are healthy. The Go-Backs and Wolfriders are as light-skinned as North Europeans (pink and beige skin). At least the Wolfriders are able to tan at lower latitudes. Yet their skin remains significantly lighter than that of the Sun People. They in turn have medium brown skin which does not become lighter at higher latitudes. (Dark-skinned humans gets noticeably lighter skin after a few months at high latitudes.) The different tribes also differ in height and build. The original High Ones where the size of tall humans but significantly more curvy. The Gliders are of roughly human height but with “narrower” bodies. What I mean is that their bodies seem squeezed together from the sides compared to those of humans. The other elf tribes still have the curvy build of the High Ones. However, the Go-Backs and Wolfriders are very much shorter. For example the Wolfrider Treestump has about 60% of his ancestor Timmain’s height. All adult Wolfriders and Go-Backs are close to him in height. So are all adult members of the Sun People except for their oldest woman who is significantly taller. Wolfrider men are also considerably more muscular than those of the other tribes. In fact, all Wolfriders are stronger than other elves but this is not so easily visible in the women. This is because they are all descendants of Timmorn Yelloweyes who was probably best described as being half elf and half wolf. This also explains the fact that the Wolfrider men develop patches of facial hair at an age of several centuries. Otherwise the elves seems to have no noticeable hair in the areas where humans would naturally grew androgenic hair. If anyone don’t understand please let me know.

2009-05-23 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

I now think elf women can get pregnant without Recognition if they want to. (Elf women don’t menstruate which suggests no recurrent ovulation.) However, this only works if the society has a need for children. Similarly, Recognition only occurs if there is a need to reproduce. All in all, elves can only reproduce when they need to.

I think the Sun People reproduce only through Recognition. Except for Winnowill giving birth to the half-troll Two-Edge the Gliders did not reproduce for many millenia. I don’t know how they did before they stopped to reproduce. But my educated guess is they relied mainly on Recognition. The Go-Backs reproduce mostly without Recognition. The Wolfriders reproduce mainly through Recognition and have done so for a long time. Out of the current Wolfriders born within the tribe only Sust, Pike and possibly Moonshade were born outside Recognition. Krim and Yun were both born outside Recognition. However, these two were born among the Go-Backs and later joined the Wolfriders. Teir’s origin is a bit unclear. In Hidden Years 23 Alpha and Omega he does his best to explain. He says the he was born without Recognition happening before. His parents, grandfather and brother were the only people he ever knew. I would say he was born in a family group rather than a tribe. In - Recognition - 1 and 2_page=1#_1 Recognition he turns out to have met Kahvi as a child. However, I don’t think he is the son of her.

2013-08-16 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

Sexuality

" The attitude of the elves towards sex differs greatly from that of human cultures because of their biological differences. Intercourse for the elves isn't an act of reproduction, which only happens as the result of Recognition." --This statement is incorrect not only by a reading of the comic but by a reading of the article itself. Children are regularly born outside of recognition to all three "healthy" elf tribes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.125.84.185 (talk) 09:19, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Elfquest 1979 cover art by Wendy Pini.jpg

Image:Elfquest 1979 cover art by Wendy Pini.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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— Save_Us_229 19:16, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Movie is coming.

There is a movie coming [1]. It is unknown if this is live action or animation movie. This must be added in article. --SkyWalker (talk) 14:21, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Except that they've been claiming this for at least 12 years now, without anything solid turning up. Two words, rhyme with "Pevelopement Bell". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.125.84.164 (talk) 11:07, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like the project has been shouted down to me.

2009-02-11 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.229.19.183 (talk) 20:00, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Comics B-Class Assesment required

This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject. If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class. The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject. Comics-awb (talk) 16:26, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Starship of the High Ones

Is it known if the High Ones' starship travelled slower or faster than light? For a species that does not age after reaching adulthood slower-than-light interstellar travel should not be any problem.

2008-10-05 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

C-Class rated for Comics Project

As this B-Class article has yet to receive a review, it has been rated as C-Class. If you disagree and would like to request an assesment, please visit Wikipedia:WikiProject_Comics/Assessment#Requesting_an_assessment and list the article. Hiding T 14:01, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Oversimplification of origins

In part 20 of the original series the High One Timmain – channelled through her descendant Suntop – says:

“I... am Timmain!
I will speak trough the mind and heart of this child –
– in words you can understand!”
[...]
“Look upon the Scroll of Colors! As it turns you will learn the history of the High Ones.
Read it, and I will explain what you see.
The High Ones come here from... elsewhere.
Their world, lifeless now, lived long as worlds go and bore many young as worlds do.
The early High Ones depended on their land for survival, until they tamed it, and made it depend on them. The gift you call magic slept in their bodies, but their tools and weapons gave them so much power that they did not look inside themselves –
– for other sources.
In time all their lands and waters where not enough to sustain their numbers.
So some found other worlds to dwell on, and a star’s lifetime passed before descendants of those travelers went back to see the High Ones’ birthplace.
The returned ones chose to stay and aid the used-up world they found.
In doing so these caretakers awakened their inner magic. It took the place of tools as they eased the aging land through the last of its life.
But purpose changes with time. The High Ones become absorbed in exploring the limits of their powers.
Death and birth happened to them less and less often and even shape and substance lost meaning for them –
– for both, they learned could be changed at will.
Then come the choice – the choice which , once made, defined the nature of the High Ones for all time!”
[...]
“We, for I existed by then, learned to send our spirits ‘out.’ These little deaths tempted us to abandon our bodies altogether, for it is very peaceful without flesh and the senses.
But we choose form and all the pleasures and pains that go with it! We choose an immortality seasoned with chance rather than tranquility.
There was no new growth or knowledge to be had on our finished world, and once again we looked for the stars – and a new goal –
– experience!
As humbling reminders of the beings who had but one shape and a limited life span, we took small, ground-digging apes and winged insects – the last animals left on our world – and we bonded into many groups. Each group raised and sealed about itself, like a folded blossom, a shell made from our dying soil. Then, one by one, the shells floated toward the little twinkling points in the sky.
It is far from dead, the vast sea where all stars swim. Anything we needed, from air to breath, to food to eat, we made from the matter we collected from the blackness between suns. And those suns gave warmth to different worlds – some teeming with life. We visited many, always in secret, shaping ourselves to look like and mingle with the creatures we met. The Scroll of Colors will tell you all of these adventures someday, but now you must learn why my bound group come to this World of Two Moons and how we become exiles in the wrong place – and time!”
[...]
“Our travels carried us so far and so long that we saw many generations of our little pets come and go. Our shell, suffused with shape-changing magic, could not help but affect them. Eventually, they become as long lived as we! The burrowers and winged ones evolved, gained thought and speech. But while the Preservers were willing helpers, the ones you call trolls were willful and independent.
For their own sakes, not for ours, the trolls kept our floating shell in perfect order. But when they saw their chance, finally, to be free of us, they thought nothing of the consequences of their actions.
In all our travels we had yet to meet with another shell. We yearned to share our gained knowledge, to touch and be touched by others of our unique kind. Where were our fellow wanderers?
One answer seemed to be cloaked within the shared legends of humans who inhabited a small, double-mooned world. No matter their outward differences, these humans depicted, trough their art and craft, magical beings – immortals – with traits and powers like ours.
We wondered if other High Ones had visited and stayed on that world, becoming the source of such vivid human lore. Of so, could we do the same, and perhaps reunite with our long lost kind?
Choosing a place to appear where the folk seemed, by all their stories and art, to be especially fond of wood spirits, elves and trolls, we took shapes to match those images and transformed our shell into a palace.
We hoped that humans would dare to approach their legends-come-to-life, and that from them we’d obtain clues to the where-abouts of others of our race. Our stay would be brief, for even from afar we sensed the two-mooned word’s draining effect on our powers.
Although we never intended to remain, the mischievous trolls wished to! At the moment of our descent, one of the trolls slashed open the Guiders’ cocoons!
In the shock of sudden exposure, the Guiders lost control! Their linked minds surged with misdirected power, hurling us off course –
– and into chaos!
We crashed, then recovered, only to find –
– it was the same world, but much, younger, harsh and unfriendly.
The bestial humans seemed to have no thoughts – save for survival.
Those of us who escaped were driven into the woods, while the trolls burrowed underground. The humans claimed our palace and prevented our return to it.
The constant use of magic had, which served us poorly here, had left us weak and unfit.
Learning to live of the cold land was hard and painful. We longed for the stars...”

“...and still do!” Skywise replies.

“Strange...” thinks Cutter. “One quest for elves led to another.”

Timmain – still channelled through Suntop – continues:

“The rest, you know. You are the scattered children of the High Ones and the trolls.
You are the sturdy result of generations of change.
But the Wolfriders are more! They alone share blood with beasts born of this world. It was my gift to my son!
He was the first of us to have the right to call the land his own!
If you choose, Wolfriders, you too have that right –
– and none can... take it from you...”

Each new paragraph represents a new speech bubble. The signs “[...]” replace intervening comments which I consider less important. Cutter is Suntop’s father and Skywise is Cutter’s best friend. My point is that the description of the origins of the elves, trolls and preservers is oversimplified and sometimes even incorrect. These are the discrepancies I have found:

¤ The original home-world of the High Ones become overpopulated at least a thousand million years before they discovered their psychic powers. Some of anthropomorphic inhabitants then left the world to find and colonise others.
¤ When the descendants of those space-farers returned to their species original home-world it had already reached the end of the time when it could support life. In the effort to keep the planet habitable these discovered that they had magic-like powers. Their psychic powers grew until they become ageless shape-shifters with the ability to shape their environment as well.
¤ The ancestors of the trolls and Preservers were the only animals left on the planet at the time of the High Ones departure.
¤ The pets of the High Ones evolved into trolls and Preservers during the journey to the World of Two Moons. The trolls evolved further after the landing to become more muscular. They become a little taller as well. The Preservers could not have done so since they where no longer able to reproduce.

My source is Elfquest Archives Part Four. The excerpts can be found on pages 167 – 173 in DC Comics’ 2007 edition. If you want I can explain what Timmain meant with her “gift” to her son as well.

2009-05-17 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

Fantasy weapon?

In the original series there is a weapon that seem to be a cross between a bow and an atlatl. It looks like stick with a twine fastened in one end. The other end of the twin is a loop to fit an arrow in. Does this weapon exist in the real world or was it made up by Wendy and Richard Pini?

2009-05-23 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

Publication history

Maybe early spin-off works like story Homespun, first printed in Marvelæs Epic Illustrated Vol 1 #1, could be included? That's where we first meet the Petalwing and the rest of the preservers in the Forbidden Grove, where they encounters Selah and Malak. 84.210.63.90 (talk) 23:42, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Suggest merge of Gliders (Elfquest) to here

The article Gliders (Elfquest) is unreferenced and appears to be primarily in-universe in content. Web searches for "Elfquest Gliders -wikipedia" appear to bring up only references to the series itself and to fansites, which do nothing to establish notability. Elfquest itself is likely to be notable although this article does not establish it unequivocally. It seems appropriate to merge the content to here. --MegaSloth (talk) 01:06, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support - The Gliders fail Wikipedia's notability guidelines for elements of fiction. Neelix (talk) 02:39, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
• Support definitely in-universe. Blackash have a chat 13:45, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
• Support I think some of the character information here can also be incorporated into List of Elfquest characters. Colincbn (talk) 16:43, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

I've started the merge by moving the character info from over to Gliders (Elfquest)List of Elfquest characters. Once I've done that I'll merge the rest of the page here. Blackash have a chat 16:22, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Done I've merged the Gliders (Elfquest) into both this article and the List of Elfquest characters. Blackash have a chat 14:41, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

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Wolf Riders and animals other than wolves

In the Xanth book Isle of View, we're introduced to an Elfquest Wolf Rider named Jenny, who shows up with her real-world cat, Sammy. Jenny and Sammy are clearly friends. Additionally, Sammy has a special ability to find items on request, such as a feather (which is how they end up in Xanth in the first place), the child of a centaur who Jenny was talking to, and help. This brings up 2 question:

1. Do Wolf Riders tend to have relationships with animals other than wolves?
2. Do animals such as cats have special abilities?

109.186.192.1 (talk) 13:50, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Art of Elfquest

I've been thinking about adding a few sentences about the style of the art in Elfquest, but I'm not sure where best to do it or if it deserves its own section.

In interviews, Wendy Pini has talked about how the style of the comic art was inspired by manga artists, particularly Osamu Tezuka.. This combination of western and manga art styles was very new for the time.

There was also a book published showcasing the art of the series, called The Art of Elfquest. This is not yet mentioned in the article.

Worth adding a section on Art? Where should I put it? Classicintense (talk) 05:10, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

References

Title: Elfquest or ElfQuest

Wendy Pini and Richard Pini write the title as ElfQuest on their website: https://elfquest.com/eq-faq/

Has there been a discussion whether to capitalize q in the title when referring to the comic on Wikipedia? Mason Clegg (talk) 00:50, 30 March 2024 (UTC)