Talk:Pattern Recognition (novel)

Pattern Recognition (novel) is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on April 12, 2011.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
January 23, 2008	WikiProject peer review	Reviewed
February 14, 2008	Good article nominee	Listed
March 11, 2008	Featured article candidate	Promoted

Current status: Featured article

Novels: Sci-fi Mid‑importance

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F:F:F

Has anyone seen this? http://www.veoh.com/videos/v7310191nhWQFT9R —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.64.188 (talk) 13:45, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Flight Jacket

Shouldn't there be some mention of the originally fictional nature of the black Buzz Rickson's jacket and its later (and current) production? --65.0.234.171 01:50, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Literary classification

Currently the article claims that Pattern Recognition is a work of mainstream fiction as opposed to the author's previous science fiction work. I tend to disagree on that, because I see the theme as a development of Gibson's cyberpunk theme with going away from net/computer-based and a bit towards corporations and influence of them on people. I therefore disagree with the "science-fiction" against "mainstream fiction" label. But as this is a very-POV statement, and I am not an expert on literature, I was thinking a discussion would be in order. - Ernie 19:23, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Ernie. This book definitely has a 'genre' feel to it - you don't need rayguns to make it a science fiction book. Stompy 14:38, Mar 3, 2005 (UTC)

Science fiction is a state of mind, not a set of topics. "Pattern Recognition" is definitely science fiction. raxolotl

I do think that this question is more than a point of view thing. I do think that altough the novel retains most of Gibson's feel and mood, it does this in a strictly present-day setting (but, granted, not without a fair amount of places and happenings and ideas very unnusual or not-to-be-found-on-normal-persons-life). And this is a trend in his books: take Idoru, for example, it is still science fiction (one of the main characters is AI), but for everything else it is our present world with some more bandwidth, the computers have beautyfull names but do nothing a present day computer can't arguably do. And even more, it feels as a normal present day world. I believe that this is a deliberate move by the author. I do think that it also is a way of saying that the everyday world we live in is, each day more, a sci-fi world. - Marcio RPS (at gmail)

I came to this page to make the same point that everyone else has. I'll do an edit soon to clarify, or maybe unclarify, PR's genre situation. Nareek 21:33, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ballard's Crash isn't listed as Science Fiction so neither should this. Yeah of course present day resembles cyberpunk, its still present day. Philip K. Dick's Confessions of a Crap Artist isn't science-fiction either. just my 2c 71.56.114.89 12:43, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

John Clute says it's SF, until there are references to the contrary, the article will reflect that position. End of story. Skomorokh ^incite 15:35, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

SF or detective?

Science fiction isn't defined by time setting,it can be set back in past. Science fiction difference from thriller (a emotional torrent of action), fiction/fantasy (modern tales and myths,often involving supernatural), detective(crime and investigation) is focus on technology and details. Science fiction explores the subjects and concepts deeply. There no personal importance (no dramatization, just plain realism) what are character feelings about, only the context,setting and the plot (the plot is well-ordered chain of events unlike masses of chaotic fast-paced technothrillers).

9/11 Reference

As far as I can tell, Iain Banks' novel "Dead Air" (released 2002) was published before Pattern Recognition. I think it qualifies as a "major literary work", and it references 9/11 heavily. Therefore, I think that the assertion "It has been cited as the first major literary work to allude to the events of 9/11." is somewhat dubious. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 121.72.26.75 (talk) 21:11, 10 May 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Fair use rationales

Image:Pattern recognition danish cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 22:21, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Pattern recognition-br.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 22:21, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Pattern recognition (book cover).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:32, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Good article review

The article is a pass right. I'd like to give a more detailed review as well that can helpfully be useful going forward. I read Pattern Recognition about a year ago and am in the middle of Spook Country right now, and I helped a bit with the William Gibson FA, so hopefully my input will be somewhat useful. Contemporary fiction and non-fiction are difficult topics to approach and I think you do an excellent job with very tricky subject matter. (I wanted to review The World Without Us but hadn't read it yet!)

Well written?: Pass. It's well written, although I do have some suggestions and fixes that may make it even more so!
Factually accurate?: Pass. Yes, very good on this score.
Broad in coverage?: Pass. Does a very good job here as well.
Neutral point of view?: Pass. Yes.
Article stability? Pass. Yes.
Images?: Pass. Although I'll note that some editors might complain about the collage of international covers. The purpose of the image is encyclopedic, and the images are extremely low resolution, so I do not object, but I caution that others might.

More detailed review to follow (tomorrow) but for now congratulations! --JayHenry (talk) 06:23, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

First paragraph of body

I'm putting together a FAC review and have some copyediting concerns. I don't want to clutter up FAC with too much detail so I thought I'd put some comments here instead.

I tried copyediting the first paragraph, but I don't think I have it right. Here's a version:

Gibson's first professional sale was in 1977. He had published seven novels (one co-written) and numerous short stories before Pattern Recognition. His previous novel, All Tomorrow's Parties, was published in October 1999 as the conclusion of the Bridge trilogy. Pattern Recognition was written between 2001 and 2002 while Gibson was living in Vancouver, British Columbia,^[1] and released in February 2003. Pattern Recognition was originally intended to be a stand alone novel,^[2] but afterwards Gibson wrote Spook Country which takes place in the same universe and uses some of the same characters.

References

^ Gill, Alexandra (2003-02-08), "Back in the here and now", The Globe and Mail, Toronto, pp. R19 {{citation}}: Check date values in: |date= (help).
^ Cite error: The named reference Graham was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

The changes include:

Date of first sale -- see his article; it was 1977.
Chronological sequence -- the current version runs from 2001-2 to 1981 to 2003 to 1999 to post-2003.

My version above doesn't flow smoothly, but I thought I'd put it here to give you an idea of what I think is wrong with the existing paragraph. Mike Christie (talk) 23:31, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking an interest. What you have here looks good, except the first sentence Gibson's first professional sale was in 1977 which is more about Gibson, than the book. I try to make the book the subject of every sentence here (I've gotten rapped on the knuckles for straying before). Especially as the first sentence, I would like to bluntly state the obvious that WG is the author of PR; currently in the article I used the first sentence to define the background, who-what-when-where. Moving to a chronological outline we could start Before writing Pattern Recognition the author, WG, had published seven novels (one co-written) and numerous short stories since 1977. His previous novel... --maclean 00:29, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, and that new first sentence is definitely an improvement over mine. Mike Christie (talk) 00:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Spook Country in lead

I understand why Spook Country wasn't originally in the lead section, but now that some time has passed since the novel was published, it seems appropriate to mention it. Any objections? Viriditas (talk) 08:24, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No objections here. maclean 15:34, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Content of the footage

Does any of you know what is actually showed in the clips?Janmarques (talk) 16:53, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This page is for talking about the Wikipedia article itself – you might have better luck getting an answer to your question at the reference desk or at the William Gibson Board discussion forum. Regards, Skomorokh 17:12, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Does Cayce have Stendhal Syndrome?

when I saw the article on Stendhal syndrome, I immediately thought of this novel. What do you think? Is that worth linking to from this article? WhiteDragon (talk) 17:40, 13 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Criticism section added

Added a new section for criticism and put in the info about the book's fatal story flaw, as noted and published in the hungarian monthly "Élet és Irodalom" two months after the book was globally published. 82.131.135.138 (talk) 20:47, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This should probably be integrated into the reception section. Any work of fiction will have all sorts of implausibilities. This particular critique isn't actually very strong or interesting (far from "fatal") since the premise is the Russians were testing weaknesses ie the film clips weren't actually themselves critically important. --JayHenry (talk) 21:27, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Do you know which issue? I would like to add it to the references. In this article, the criticism is placed in the "Reception" section. It is Wikipedia convention to use "Reception" section instead of "Criticism" (See Wikipedia:Criticism for an explanation). -maclean (talk) 21:36, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, was just amending my statement to say the same thing. Agree with Maclean. --JayHenry (talk) 21:41, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Moscow research

Dumping this here as a bookmark of sorts: how the Moscow background research was done. Skomorokh 13:54, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Bigend Trilogy"

Can we start calling Pattern Recognition/Spook Country/Zero History the Bigend Trilogy now? The footer lists the other trilogies and, as cited in the article, Gibson has confirmed that Zero History will be the completion of the running trilogy, no? Atduskgreg (talk) 03:10, 22 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

When (or where) did Gibson say that Bigend would be in the next book? -maclean (talk) 04:17, 22 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Putnam recently released the blurb for their publisher's catalog along with the cover art. The blurb features a gloss on the story and mentions bigend heavily as well as other characters from the earlier books. G.W. Putnam Fall 2010 Catalog - Zero History by William Gibson - hardback cover illustration and blurb Atduskgreg (talk) 15:29, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Post-stuctualist v Post-modern wrt "The Crying of Lot 49"

Hi all,

Critics identify influences in Pattern Recognition from Thomas Pynchon's post-structuralist detective story The Crying of Lot 49.

Erm... very much over-simplified, but

Post-structuralism is the term for a strand of mid-late C20 continental philosophy;
postmodernism is a decription of mid-late C20 aesthetic practice, an example being The Crying of Lot 49.

You really don't have to have a first class honours degree in Cultural Studies^[1] to pick up on this. I would change it myself, right now, but editing the article triggers the biggest warning message I've ever seen!
--Shirt58 (talk) 08:44, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think it was an attempt at summarising the segment "'In post-structural literary theory Cayce is compared with the main character, Oedipa Maas, of Thomas Pynchon's The Crying of Lot 49" which is itself sensical enough. I've amended the description, thanks for that. Skomorokh 10:11, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The 'Post-structuralism' bit came from the City article which states "Post-structural literary theory has, however, been less inclined to privilege the sort of transcendental meanings that these literary detectives have supplied, and seminal works such as Italo Calvino's Invisible Cities (1973) and Thomas Pynchon's The Crying of Lot 49 (1966), rather than offer characters who succeed in interpreting the city for us, merely offer layers of signification, texts that refer endlessly to other texts, proliferating conspiracies and patterns that defer ultimate meaning. In this and other respects The Crying of Lot 49 seems to be an important influence, perhaps even a linear precursor to Gibson's work as a whole and Pattern Recognition in particular..." I can email a full copy of this article to you upon request. maclean (talk) 02:24, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No disputing the significance of The Crying of Lot 49 to either PR or post-structuralist lit theory, I think Shirt58's point is simply that it is a category error to label the novel itself post-structuralist. Congratulations on the TFA though, the article has come through remarkably unscathed! Skomorokh 03:20, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I have no objection to the edit. I am only providing context for where the Post-structuralism comes from. The sum total of my knowledge on post-structuralism comprises of whatever was written in the Post-structuralism article in 2008 and from the context the City article author used. maclean (talk) 04:08, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

^ 1

I have one of these. Don't worry, I've made an almost complete recovery.--Shirt58 (talk) 09:36, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is it really true that many of Gibson's short stories started in 1977? 87.194.213.229 (talk) 08:29, 10 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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[Gill-1] Gill, Alexandra (2003-02-08), "Back in the here and now", The Globe and Mail, Toronto, pp. R19 {{citation}}: Check date values in: |date= (help).

[Graham-2] Cite error: The named reference Graham was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

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