Talk:Bob Fosse

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Pronunciation

Isn't it pronounced "fossy"? There should be a word to this effect. Flapdragon 01:00, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

In Norwegian (e.g. the author Jon Fosse), it's more like "foss-eh" (stressing the first part). Of course, it's unlikely that B.F. or anyone else in the US pronounced it that way. I cannot say for sure, but "fossy" sounds likely. JöG 07:08, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's "fossy." 75.48.16.182 (talk) 19:05, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

It is a relevant how the name “Fosse” would be pronounced in other parts of the world. Bob Fosse pronounced his name as if it were “FOSSY”. Other dialects and pronunciations do not apply when it pertains to the way someone chooses to have his or her name pronounced. MarydaleEd (talk) 17:42, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Filmography

Is it true that he was the choreographer for White Christmas, the movie? If this is true I think its worth mentioning.Allthewhile 03:05, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Allthewhile -- IMdB lists him as choreographer for that, though uncredited. Aliza250 19:34, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Bad edit?

This sentence makes no sense: "In 2001, Fosse was awarded the Laurence Olivier Award for Best Theatre Choreographer with Ann Reinking for Fosse at the Prince of Wales Theatre." Did a previous edit remove some words?

Content plagiarized?

2378437843778yurewyty8 fuck I spent some time fixing typos and links and removing malicious edits in this article, only to discover that the text matches verbatim the Fosse bio at Ask.com (http://www.answers.com/topic/bob-fosse). I don't know which page is the original and which was plagiarized. 66.26.79.152 15:11, 5 April 2007 (UTC)simonlefranc@hotmail.com

Since the answers.com site says it uses information from Wikipedia, I'm pretty sure answers.com took it from here and not the other way around. (For what it's worth, I've seen a lot of answers.com articles which are verbatim reproductions of Wikipedia articles. I think it's standard procedure for them to copy Wikipedia.) Clockster 11:46, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Another bad edit?

Paragraph 2 under "Marriages" starts with "She", but it's not clear who the pronoun refers to, as several women were named in the previous sentence. LynnD71 (talk) 15:01, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the paragraph refers to Lainie Sakakura. The clues: the "Lainie" from the text; the work on "Fosse"; here is her IBDB entry: [1]. In any event, she was not married to Bob Fosse, does not belong in that section. Further, she may have had some involvement in his work products, and, if notable/interesting (etc), that work belongs in those specific articles, not in this bio/article. Or, if anyone thinks that she is notable, she could have her own article (I am not necessarily suggesting such, just pointing out the options). JeanColumbia (talk) 21:03, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Dancin'playbill.jpg

The image Image:Dancin'playbill.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --19:48, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Neutral voice

While I can appreciate the sheer volume of material added by 208.59.133.221, these additions are largely unsourced and could use a bit more professionalism and a bit less breathless theater geek.--Rosicrucian^Talk 23:27, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

==

Go to YouTube and watch Snake in the Grass (Little Prince) - Michael Jackson stole all the moves. At least a few words about this should be in the article on Bob Fosse. --KpoT (talk) 16:37, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Changing the Way Dance is Filmed?

When he became a director, Fosse changed the way dance sequences were shot. In the past, they had been shot either from an aerial, over-head view, or from straight-on. Fosse used jump cuts and perspective shots that gave a unique look at the sheer technique these dancers were displaying. This all started with the 1969 film-version of Sweet Charity that he directed and choreographed Hanmcea (talk) 19:25, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

References

MTV as a Citation?

The 10th citation, as of Nov 2014, is a link to some MTV website that just serves a copy of this wikipedia article. This kind of recursive reference should be disqualified as a valid source of information.

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Proposed Revisions

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

In looking through the article I noticed a few issues that I wanted to address.

• I think the career section should be separated from the early life section. If I can find more information about Fosse's early life, I will do this. If anyone else is able to help expand this part, please feel free to help.
• In the current Early Life and Career section, the third paragraph is worded to be more focused on Verdon than Fosse. I want to reword these sentences so the focus remains on Fosse.
• The second paragraph of the All That Jazz subheading under Later Career, seems to be focused more on his legacy and how others kept his style alive after his death. I think the content would fit better in the legacy section.
• In the innovation section, the information is not in chronological order. This confused me when I first read it. I think just moving the information from the second paragraph to the start of the section would help, because it was the earliest thing that happened.

I also have some questions about some of the information.

• There seems to be a lot of mention of awards throughout the article. Sometimes they are talked about to such an extent that it did not fit with the information around it. I know there is a table for the awards Fosse's work received, but should we also include another section explaining all of his awards?
• Because the Work section is split into stage and film, would splitting the Fosse's career into subheadings for stage and film help keep the article consistent?
• There two paragraphs dedicated to work that Fosse turned down. If Fosse did not work on these projects, is it necessary to include them? What purpose does this serve?

I'll get started on these edits in the next few days. If anyone has feedback I'd love to hear it. Thanks Andikaylynn (talk) 19:33, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

I will be working in my sandbox on the changes before making the individual changes here. Andikaylynn (talk) 20:26, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Relevant Information?

The final sentence of the second to last paragraph in the Career section does not seem relate to Fosse. It reads, "The script was eventually adapted to the screen, and the film, directed by Martin Scorsese starred Robert De Niro and Jerry Lewis." Because the information that Fosse passed on the project had already been stated, I do not see how this information is relevant to this article. Could it be removed to keep the article on the right subject? Andikaylynn (talk) 06:00, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

I agree. I will remove it. LoopZilla (talk) 10:09, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Please forgive my oversight (and other important notes)

I just realized I made wholesale edits while logged out of Wikipedia. I apologize for that oversight and happily claim the edits made today from my IP address.

Also, it concerns me that much of the Fosse article is clearly copied and pasted from another source. It does not take an experienced editor like me to spot language that is typical from certain sources. While I realize that probably happens a lot in Wikipedia, it cannot be condoned unless the information is placed within quotation marks and is properly sourced. Otherwise, it is plagiarism. Perhaps the casual writer does not understand that copying and pasting another person’s writing is plagiarism if it is done in the interest of providing information, like, for example, in an enyclopedia. However, plagiarism rules still apply and the person who took the time to author that information probably does not appreciate his or her work being taken without proper citation. I know I wouldn’t. MarydaleEd (talk) 17:53, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Fosse/Verdon TV series

Wouldn't it be appropriate to add a link to the current TV series "Fosse/Verdon"? It even has a separate Wiki entry. Fosse/Verdon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KaldeFakta68 (talk • contribs) 12:12, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

I’m not sure I understand your proposition of linking this article to a television show. However, if you think new language needs to be added then you should add it, taking care to keep it within Wikipedia standards. God bless and happy editing. MarydaleEd (talk) 15:51, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Bob Fosse choreographed the movie My Sister Eileen

Hello. I don’t know how to do edits on Wikipedia so I would appreciate if someone could make this change. Bob Fosse did in fact do the choreography for the film My Sister Eileen 1955, as is noted on the Wikipedia page about that film, and any number of articles about that movie.

So there should be a YES in that box for choreography for that film .

Thanks. 69.110.5.11 (talk) 08:57, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Drastic Changes Needed + Conflict of Interest (suggested areas of discussion and edits).

Dear Wikipedia Community,

I would love to open a discussion on many aspects of this Bob Fosse profile that need serious attention. I want to preface this note by saying that I have a conflict of interest due to my proximity to the Fosse family, but I would like to set the record straight on aspects of this article that are rooted in fiction, unsourced, or taken from Sam Wasson - who is highly debated as a credible source and has information that is not accurate or skewed. I realize the conflict of interest, hence the new talk page section. I would love to gain everyone's perspectives on how we can genuinely make this article more transparent and comprehensive and ultimately move it up from C-class. I have many edits that I would love to suggest, but I would like to open a discussion first. My end goal is to improve this overall article and improve my skills on Wikipedia. I am currently in a Wikipedia Educational Course through my institution and hope to grow as an editor on this platform. So, I would be thrilled to collaborate and speak openly about the edits I have proposed below and I welcome all criticism so I can improve as an academic and editor (I am aware that I can not make these edits myself and am suggesting them to the community).

Suggested Edits and Point of Discussion:

1."...was an American actor, choreographer, dancer, director and screenwriter. He directed and choreographed musical works on stage and screen, including the stage musicals The Pajama Game (1954), Damn Yankees (1955), How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying (1961)..."

- Source needed. Source found:

2. "He was drawn to dance and took lessons. "

- Weak first sentence, needs structural tweak

3. "Many of these performances included shows at burlesque clubs, such as the Silver Cloud and Cave of Winds."

- missing source

4. "However, many of the women and promoters did not care that Fosse was underage working in adult clubs, and would be exposed to sexual harassment from the burlesque women and much of the erotic movement he would later use to inform his future work."

- missing source

5. "Fosse began work on a film about gossip columnist Walter Winchell that would have starred Robert De Niro as Winchell. The Winchell script was written by Michael Herr. Fosse died before starting the Winchell project."

- Missing source

6. "Much of Fosse's time outside of the rehearsal studio or theater was seldom spent alone. As stated in the biography of his life, Fosse by Sam Wasson, "nights alone were murder on Fosse". To alleviate loneliness and insomnia brought on by his prescribed amphetamines, Fosse would often contact dancers he would work with and try to date them, making it hard for many to refuse his advances, but also giving him the affirmation of success he sought after."

- The whole excerpt is sourced from Sam Wasson's book and gives me pause. Yes, he was a user of amphetamines, but the way the sentence above is crafted suggests a blanket statement that amphetamines lead to loneliness and insomnia. The focus is not on the truth of the statement, rather the organization and its subsequent suggestion of loneliness and insomnia as side effects of amphetamines. Furthermore, as previously stated, Sam Wasson's words do not fully encompass the truth, and if I was editing this segment, I would follow these claims by building out the context behind them.

7. "During their joint career, Fosse would continually take blame from critics while Gwen Verdon would get praise, no matter how much influence Verdon had on a production."

- Sentence needs adjusting. I suggest something like: "During Fosse and Verdon's working relationship, Fosse would consistently be the root of criticism from entertainment industry critics. Verdon would regularly receive praise for their joint productions, but was never comprehensively recognized for pivotal work in shaping the productions."

8. The whole "Work" section needs to be updated with appropriate sources

9. "Reinking and Verdon kept Fosse's unique choreography alive after his death"

- Needs additions. Reinking and many others contributed to the continuation of Fosse's choreography. Most notably, Fosse's daughter Nicole Fosse, Founder and Creative Director of the VerdonFosse Legacy LLC. has made it her mission to preserve and protect the intellectual and creative property of her parents.

I look forward to an open discussion and hearing the communities insight! Sustainabilitypurpose (talk) 18:06, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Missing source: There is often a problem when we are talking of a time when there were fewer mentionings in publications, or the publications were lost over the decades, or an event was simply not accepted by a publication editor. Digital archives are not that old but the fact something has not been digitized, does not mean it has not happened or is untrue. 2001:8003:A070:7F00:2867:B354:37AE:93BC (talk) 04:16, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

References