Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alleged planned Venezuelan coup in 2004

This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was keep and cleanup. —Korath (Talk) 04:18, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

Alleged planned Venezuelan coup in 2004

Article is nothing more than a combination of original research and poor sourcing. Half of the sources are in Spanish and therefore it is impossible for many Wikipedians to verify the contents of them, and the others are of dubious credibility. This and the fact that the article is attempting to argue a point, namely that forces are at work in Venezuela to hatch a coup against Chavez, even when none of the sources explicitly state this leads me to conclude that this article is nothing more than original research. Add onto this that the article is out of date. Deletion suggested. TDC 19:40, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)

Delete. POV, non-encyclopedic, conspiracy theory. Binadot 22:23, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Keep. This was an important event in Venezuelan-Colombian relations and internal Venezuelan politics. Whether it was a plot to overthrow the government, or a government ploy to persecute opposition members, or something in between, it was important. The article as it stands might have POV or sourcing issues, but that's not a reason to delete it. DanKeshet 22:27, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC) (note: this comment was edited since TDC made his reply. --dk)

Perhaps relevant sections might be reincorporated into the article as part of Venezuela's relations with its neighbors. TDC 22:29, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)

We just moved it out of the Hugo Chavez article because the incident was overrepresented in that article. DanKeshet 22:47, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)

Read the header again, too much poorly sourced original research. TDC 23:03, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)

I wouldn't call the article good right now, but original research? This seems like a perfectly standard account of what was in all the Venezuelan and world newspapers. If you want the other side of the story, check out Roberto Alonso's pictures of his ranch which he says was damaged in the raid of his employees. DanKeshet 23:09, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)

Keep - David Gerard 01:40, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Merge. This was an alleged coup. Surely there is some Venezuelan article this can be merged to? Megan1967 03:43, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Keep. I think the whole point was that this page was split from the Hugo Chavez article. As for this bizarre idea that sources not written in English make the article original research, an article about South America that probes events in some depth is obviously going to use sources in Spanish. Of course not all readers will be able to verify them, but that doesn't mean that no one can, which is a very different thing. The vast vast majority of readers of any article don't check up on the sources and don't need to, as long as someone does it there isn't a problem. And anyway, if sources have to be written in the same language as the article in order to be valid I'd be interested to know how you think the Lingala or Inuktitut or Walloon editions of our noble project are ever going to produce comprehensive encyclopedias! — Trilobite (Talk) 04:42, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Comment: "Half of the sources are in Spanish and therefore it is impossible for many Wikipedians to verify the contents of them" should never be an excuse for rejecting something. Especially not when the language is as easy to decipher as Spanish. This encyclopedia would be way poorer if only English-language sources were used. - Mustafaa 07:57, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Rename and Cleanup to make the article more factual and less speculatory. Radiant! 09:12, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)
Keep and Cleanup, this is an important and complex incident (alleged or not) which should definitely be included, though it's equally true that the narrative and sourcing should be improved (trying to not misrepresent the multiples sides of the issue, hopefully). Juancarlos2004 18:42, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Keep. The objection that the sources for an article on Venezuela are largely in Spanish is beneath contempt. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:01, Mar 16, 2005 (UTC)
Keep. (Rename Roberto Alonso affair, 2004?) –Hajor 14:35, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Keep and Cleanup. I think it is a valid issue to have, since it is a current event that keeps on popping up in the American Press. Hugo Chavez has had coup attempts against him before, so if people agree to it, we could have a page just talking about the various attempts on Chavez. Zscout370 21:31, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.